SFP#41: Policy and EU: Recap of SFSCON
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SFP#41: Policy and EU: Recap of SFSCON
WEBVTT 00:00.000 --> 00:05.000 All right, then let's get started! 00:05.000 --> 00:07.000 Yay! 00:21.000 --> 00:24.000 Hello and welcome to the Software Freedom Podcast. 00:24.000 --> 00:28.000 This podcast is brought to you by the Free Software Foundation Europe. 00:29.000 --> 00:33.000 We are a charity that empowers users to control technology. 00:33.000 --> 00:36.000 And I'm here. I'm Bonnie Mehring. 00:36.000 --> 00:40.000 And I'm here today with my colleague, Alexander Sander. 00:40.000 --> 00:46.000 Alex, it's so nice that you made the time again for our monthly EU and policy episode. 00:46.000 --> 00:48.000 Thank you so much. 00:48.000 --> 00:51.000 Yeah, thanks for having me. Always a pleasure. 00:52.000 --> 00:57.000 So Alex, this time we will talk about the SFSCON, 00:57.000 --> 01:00.000 which has just happened this weekend. 01:00.000 --> 01:05.000 So you were there. I wasn't. I'm really sad that I missed it. 01:05.000 --> 01:10.000 But maybe next year, can you tell us a bit about what happened 01:10.000 --> 01:16.000 and what the conference is all about and why it's so important for the Free Software ecosystem? 01:16.000 --> 01:20.000 Absolutely. So the SFSCON is a very established conference. 01:20.000 --> 01:24.000 It was the 25th edition already this time. 01:24.000 --> 01:28.000 So it's, yeah, I said a very established conference. 01:28.000 --> 01:31.000 It happens in Italy, in Bolzano. 01:31.000 --> 01:36.000 So in South Tyrol and in the so-called NOI-Tech Park, 01:36.000 --> 01:41.000 which is also very lovely venue where people think around this technology 01:41.000 --> 01:45.000 and, yeah, in this regard also with Free Software. 01:45.000 --> 01:48.000 And the SFSCON is a Free Software conference, 01:48.000 --> 01:53.000 where around 1,000 people meet and discuss Free Software topics 01:53.000 --> 01:55.000 and present their projects. 01:55.000 --> 01:58.000 There's also attached to a data tone. 01:58.000 --> 02:01.000 And it's happening from Friday to Saturday. 02:01.000 --> 02:03.000 So it's a two-day conference. 02:03.000 --> 02:06.000 And it's very intense and very exciting talks. 02:06.000 --> 02:10.000 And normally it also comes with a dedicated topic. 02:10.000 --> 02:13.000 It's here, the main topic was ethics. 02:13.000 --> 02:16.000 So we talked a lot about Free Software and ethics. 02:16.000 --> 02:20.000 And that was super interesting to hear how other people look at this topic, 02:20.000 --> 02:25.000 how they work with this and what people are facing in this regard 02:25.000 --> 02:28.000 and from developers, maintainers, companies, 02:28.000 --> 02:33.000 but also the SFSFE and Geo's charities have been there. 02:33.000 --> 02:38.000 And it's a nice mix of Free Software and people coming together 02:38.000 --> 02:41.000 and discussing for two days, yeah, these exciting topics. 02:41.000 --> 02:45.000 And that's why we are going there since a couple of years 02:45.000 --> 02:50.000 and attending this conference with quite a lot of SFE people, 02:50.000 --> 02:54.000 volunteers, but also people from our office who work for the SFE. 02:54.000 --> 02:58.000 We also have a booth there where we can interact and chat with people 02:58.000 --> 02:59.000 who drop by. 02:59.000 --> 03:04.000 And it's not only interesting to hear and see the conference program 03:05.000 --> 03:10.000 and the exciting talks, but also to have chats at the booth afterwards 03:10.000 --> 03:13.000 where we can interact with our community, but also with people 03:13.000 --> 03:17.000 who never heard about the SFE, which are normally non, 03:17.000 --> 03:21.000 but yeah, so you have a lot of exchange, 03:21.000 --> 03:23.000 also others have booths there. 03:23.000 --> 03:27.000 And it's a very chaty conference where you can network a lot 03:27.000 --> 03:31.000 and where you can learn a lot about topics people work on these days 03:31.000 --> 03:33.000 when it comes to Free Software. 03:33.000 --> 03:36.000 And I said this year, many about ethics, 03:36.000 --> 03:39.000 but for us, super interesting, especially in the times 03:39.000 --> 03:41.000 that we are living in at the moment. 03:41.000 --> 03:43.000 Well, how was this displayed? 03:43.000 --> 03:45.000 That ethics was the main topic there, 03:45.000 --> 03:49.000 were there dedicated talks or, yeah, but... 03:49.000 --> 03:50.000 Yeah, absolutely. 03:50.000 --> 03:54.000 So there are also like several parallel tracks and sessions, 03:54.000 --> 03:59.000 so you have a couple of rooms, also like room for keynotes 03:59.000 --> 04:01.000 and you have virtual rooms. 04:01.000 --> 04:04.000 And if you take part in the call for papers, 04:04.000 --> 04:08.000 you normally also have to explain why this topic contributes 04:08.000 --> 04:11.000 to like the main topic of the conference of this year, 04:11.000 --> 04:12.000 which was ethics. 04:12.000 --> 04:14.000 So when you take part in the call for papers, 04:14.000 --> 04:17.000 you already have to think about why is this an important topic 04:17.000 --> 04:20.000 for the main issue that they want to discuss. 04:20.000 --> 04:23.000 However, there are also general talks about Free Software. 04:23.000 --> 04:26.000 So not everything is around ethics, 04:26.000 --> 04:31.000 but you see a lot of talks and workshops and conversations, 04:31.000 --> 04:34.000 panel discussions around those topics, 04:34.000 --> 04:36.000 in particular, in the main track. 04:36.000 --> 04:40.000 People share their views on this specific topic. 04:40.000 --> 04:44.000 And so you really feel that it's an important topic 04:44.000 --> 04:47.000 for the conference and that it's not just a theme 04:47.000 --> 04:49.000 or not just a saying, 04:49.000 --> 04:53.000 but that really people that then discuss these kinds of issues. 04:53.000 --> 04:54.000 All right. 04:54.000 --> 04:57.000 You already mentioned that there was a panel. 04:57.000 --> 05:02.000 So can you tell me a bit more about this panel? 05:02.000 --> 05:05.000 It is called ethics and software freedom. 05:05.000 --> 05:10.000 So what was it all about and who was part of this? 05:10.000 --> 05:12.000 Yeah, it was super interesting. 05:12.000 --> 05:14.000 Panel since it was Karen Sandler, 05:14.000 --> 05:18.000 it was Simon Phipps and our president Matthias Kirschner. 05:18.000 --> 05:20.000 And so we had very experienced people there on the panel, 05:20.000 --> 05:23.000 but also people who are in this field of resources 05:23.000 --> 05:26.000 and software since basically forever, if you like, 05:26.000 --> 05:29.000 since decades and who have really a lot of experience, 05:29.000 --> 05:33.000 who have seen a lot of debates already happening around Free Software 05:33.000 --> 05:36.000 and that are familiar not only with the recent debates 05:36.000 --> 05:38.000 and the general concept, 05:38.000 --> 05:41.000 but who really made up their mind about these topics. 05:41.000 --> 05:43.000 Yeah, so since since basically forever. 05:43.000 --> 05:45.000 And that was super interesting. 05:45.000 --> 05:49.000 There was not that much of a controversial debate. 05:49.000 --> 05:51.000 One can maybe also expect, 05:51.000 --> 05:54.000 however, there was a lot of like stories they told 05:54.000 --> 05:57.000 and it was super interesting to see how these debates 05:57.000 --> 06:00.000 on also already happened a couple of years 06:00.000 --> 06:04.000 or even decades ago and that it's just coming over and over again. 06:04.000 --> 06:06.000 Just this like different view. 06:06.000 --> 06:08.000 And one of these stories, for example, 06:08.000 --> 06:11.000 that Simon Phipps from the open source initiative shared there 06:11.000 --> 06:14.000 was that there is always this discussion 06:14.000 --> 06:18.000 about ethical licensing that you restrict the use case of Free Software 06:18.000 --> 06:21.000 and I think they all agree on that Free Software 06:21.000 --> 06:24.000 is coming without any restriction in particular 06:24.000 --> 06:26.000 when it comes about the use case. 06:26.000 --> 06:29.000 And however, we often see that people discuss, 06:29.000 --> 06:34.000 shouldn't we include some sort of like ethical use cases 06:34.000 --> 06:36.000 or like use cases that you, 06:36.000 --> 06:39.000 and for big people to use your Free Software, 06:39.000 --> 06:43.000 for example, when it comes to war or criminal activities, 06:43.000 --> 06:46.000 we also see there's a lot in AI up now 06:46.000 --> 06:49.000 that they say only for research or something like this. 06:49.000 --> 06:54.000 And normally there are morally good reasons 06:54.000 --> 06:59.000 to have this idea and people don't want something bad, right? 06:59.000 --> 07:02.000 And that's normally something good, right? 07:02.000 --> 07:04.000 So they make up their mind and they think, 07:04.000 --> 07:08.000 right, so I don't want that my software is then later 07:08.000 --> 07:11.000 be integrated in a tank or something like this. 07:11.000 --> 07:14.000 But however, the story that Simon, for example, shared 07:14.000 --> 07:17.000 was that back in the days, people, for example, 07:17.000 --> 07:20.000 when there was the apartheid system in South Africa, 07:20.000 --> 07:24.000 they said, look, every governmental organization in South Africa 07:24.000 --> 07:26.000 can't use our Free Software. 07:26.000 --> 07:30.000 And after the system changed, the license stayed. 07:30.000 --> 07:35.000 So this means that even maybe good people couldn't use the Free Software 07:35.000 --> 07:38.000 since it was in the license and it was kind of like 07:38.000 --> 07:41.000 if you like hard coded there and it couldn't be changed. 07:41.000 --> 07:44.000 And that makes it complicated in the long one. 07:44.000 --> 07:49.000 So what might be a good idea today might not be a good idea tomorrow 07:49.000 --> 07:54.000 since system change, idea change, discussion change. 07:54.000 --> 07:59.000 And that was I think a nice story to showcase 07:59.000 --> 08:04.000 why it is so important to not restrict the use case. 08:04.000 --> 08:09.000 And even if you might have a good reasoning or like a good idea 08:10.000 --> 08:14.000 or like, yeah, you want to do something good for the world, right? 08:14.000 --> 08:18.000 And you only want that software you created is only used 08:18.000 --> 08:20.000 for good purposes. 08:20.000 --> 08:23.000 This might backfire also one day later. 08:23.000 --> 08:26.000 So and therefore, yeah, it was an interesting story 08:26.000 --> 08:29.000 that I think had a lot of people to understand 08:29.000 --> 08:33.000 why it is so important to not restrict the use case. 08:33.000 --> 08:37.000 And also why it is then not Free Software anymore 08:37.000 --> 08:39.000 and we restrict the use case. 08:39.000 --> 08:42.000 And this panel wasn't this regard very interesting. 08:42.000 --> 08:46.000 So even if it was not controversial, I think it had a lot 08:46.000 --> 08:51.000 to understand why it is so important to think about ethics, 08:51.000 --> 08:55.000 to discuss ethics, to also have like a moral compass 08:55.000 --> 08:59.000 and I mean also we in FSFE having moral ideas right. 08:59.000 --> 09:03.000 So and we follow, so we are charity rights 09:03.000 --> 09:06.000 or we want to empower users to control technology 09:06.000 --> 09:08.000 which is our mission statement, for example, 09:08.000 --> 09:12.000 but still we also fight that the use case is not restricted 09:12.000 --> 09:14.000 and the Free Software remains Free Software. 09:14.000 --> 09:19.000 And I think for people who are not that much familiar with the 09:19.000 --> 09:22.000 debate or the backgrounds on all of the debates, 09:22.000 --> 09:26.000 it was very helpful to understand why this is not a good idea 09:26.000 --> 09:28.000 to restrict the use case. 09:28.000 --> 09:33.000 So and ultimately also to believe when we discuss these kinds 09:33.000 --> 09:37.000 of restrictions, one should also always know 09:37.000 --> 09:40.000 that we ultimately talk about the license right. 09:40.000 --> 09:44.000 So and if you as you just mentioned talk about criminal activities 09:44.000 --> 09:47.000 then these people already do not follow the law 09:47.000 --> 09:49.000 since they are criminals right. 09:49.000 --> 09:53.000 Very unlikely that they will be then stopped by a license 09:53.000 --> 09:55.000 with their activities right. 09:55.000 --> 09:57.000 So and this is also someone should consider 09:57.000 --> 10:02.000 and you then might also be understand why there might be 10:02.000 --> 10:05.000 more downsides if you restrict the use case 10:05.000 --> 10:07.000 that might backfire one day. 10:07.000 --> 10:09.000 And that's why it's not a good idea. 10:09.000 --> 10:12.000 And also you might not stop the people you want to stop. 10:12.000 --> 10:15.000 Was there also, I find this very interesting. 10:15.000 --> 10:19.000 I'm just wondering now because one I have always here 10:19.000 --> 10:26.000 in this context is that it's very much a social problem 10:26.000 --> 10:31.000 or a problem of our society and it needs to be solved 10:31.000 --> 10:32.000 within the society. 10:32.000 --> 10:36.000 It can't be solved by putting a license to something 10:36.000 --> 10:41.000 or by putting a restricting software use cases 10:41.000 --> 10:45.000 but it needs to be tackled as a society. 10:45.000 --> 10:50.000 And there is always this belief or this thought 10:50.000 --> 10:55.000 that if we put technology there then we will solve the problems. 10:55.000 --> 10:59.000 So like if we have robots cleaning everything 10:59.000 --> 11:02.000 then we won't have any debates anymore 11:02.000 --> 11:05.000 about who is doing the household for example 11:05.000 --> 11:07.000 because then the robot are doing it. 11:07.000 --> 11:09.000 But this isn't true. 11:09.000 --> 11:12.000 It will still be a debate and it will still shift. 11:12.000 --> 11:14.000 And you still need to think about this. 11:14.000 --> 11:16.000 It's now a very minor focus. 11:16.000 --> 11:19.000 But you still need to think about this as a society 11:19.000 --> 11:21.000 or a social problem. 11:21.000 --> 11:24.000 Was this argument discussed there at all? 11:24.000 --> 11:26.000 Absolutely. 11:26.000 --> 11:31.000 Also the classical debate which you have around tools. 11:31.000 --> 11:35.000 So you have a hammer and you can use it to have a tool 11:35.000 --> 11:37.000 which helps you, I don't know, build a house. 11:37.000 --> 11:40.000 But also you can use the hammer to kill someone. 11:40.000 --> 11:43.000 And to put a license restriction on the hammer 11:43.000 --> 11:47.000 to not use it for killing might be a bit useless 11:47.000 --> 11:50.000 if you then end up in prison anyhow. 11:50.000 --> 11:52.000 And it won't stop people from killing 11:52.000 --> 11:54.000 if you just put it in a license. 11:54.000 --> 11:57.000 So and it's more of a social problem. 11:57.000 --> 12:00.000 However, I would then also argue that 12:00.000 --> 12:04.000 this argument has a limit when we talk about weapons rights 12:04.000 --> 12:08.000 or if you might have weapons for hunters. 12:08.000 --> 12:11.000 But if you look at U.S. rights 12:11.000 --> 12:15.000 where people can buy crazy guns and just through the round 12:15.000 --> 12:18.000 then this also has to some extent some limits there. 12:18.000 --> 12:21.000 And you also should think about there 12:21.000 --> 12:25.000 to which extent we want to allow freedom 12:25.000 --> 12:27.000 when it comes to those kinds of, 12:27.000 --> 12:30.000 yeah, I wouldn't even consider this then as a tool anymore. 12:30.000 --> 12:32.000 But you're absolutely right. 12:32.000 --> 12:34.000 So we have in general social problems 12:34.000 --> 12:37.000 and we have to face them as a society 12:37.000 --> 12:40.000 and we can't stop the society 12:40.000 --> 12:42.000 or we can't change the society 12:42.000 --> 12:44.000 just as a license change. 12:44.000 --> 12:47.000 So there's absolutely way more. 12:47.000 --> 12:50.000 And I think this is also what we do in the FSI with our work. 12:50.000 --> 12:53.000 So we do not only promote a license 12:53.000 --> 12:56.000 and we do not only talk about different social license 12:56.000 --> 12:58.000 but we also talk about values. 12:58.000 --> 12:59.000 We talk about ideas. 12:59.000 --> 13:00.000 We talk about concepts. 13:00.000 --> 13:03.000 We talk about consumer protection, for example. 13:03.000 --> 13:06.000 And these are completely other debates 13:06.000 --> 13:08.000 than just talking about a license. 13:08.000 --> 13:11.000 And I think this is then also what we figured out 13:11.000 --> 13:12.000 during that conference. 13:12.000 --> 13:15.000 So that it's not only or that we, 13:15.000 --> 13:17.000 that we ultimately not only talk about 13:17.000 --> 13:19.000 a Free Software license 13:19.000 --> 13:21.000 or the restriction of use case, 13:21.000 --> 13:23.000 but that there is way more on 13:23.000 --> 13:25.000 how we need to think about this. 13:25.000 --> 13:27.000 So and many, many, 13:27.000 --> 13:29.000 like not only also independent, 13:29.000 --> 13:31.000 but also many talks then 13:31.000 --> 13:33.000 adjust the topic of AI 13:33.000 --> 13:36.000 where we more and more see these questions arising. 13:36.000 --> 13:38.000 So do we, how do we, 13:38.000 --> 13:40.000 how do we want to live with AI? 13:40.000 --> 13:42.000 That's not a license question, right? 13:42.000 --> 13:45.000 So that's where a social question 13:45.000 --> 13:47.000 that's a question for our society, 13:47.000 --> 13:48.000 that's a question for our, 13:48.000 --> 13:49.000 it's a global question, 13:49.000 --> 13:52.000 how we, how we want to address this. 13:52.000 --> 13:54.000 So and the opinion and just started 13:54.000 --> 13:56.000 with the AI act to regulate it. 13:56.000 --> 13:58.000 And we also have there, 13:58.000 --> 14:00.000 and we just recently had a podcast on this one. 14:00.000 --> 14:04.000 So on the, on the exemptions on Free Software in AI. 14:04.000 --> 14:06.000 But however, with this, 14:06.000 --> 14:07.000 we are, we are, 14:07.000 --> 14:10.000 we not reach the final point of regulating AI 14:10.000 --> 14:14.000 or we didn't like end the debate on how we look at AI. 14:15.000 --> 14:16.000 It, I would rather say, 14:16.000 --> 14:20.000 this is, this is the starting point for the debate around AI 14:20.000 --> 14:22.000 and how we want to live with this. 14:22.000 --> 14:24.000 And it's, it's not just a license question. 14:24.000 --> 14:26.000 So it, this is way, way more. 14:26.000 --> 14:28.000 And, and also Essex are, 14:28.000 --> 14:29.000 it's, it's also a term, 14:29.000 --> 14:31.000 like what means Essex to you, 14:31.000 --> 14:33.000 to me, to someone from the US, 14:33.000 --> 14:34.000 from China, 14:34.000 --> 14:36.000 from Latin America, 14:36.000 --> 14:38.000 why so different cultures look differently 14:38.000 --> 14:40.000 at some questions in the world. 14:40.000 --> 14:43.000 And Essex is also not really a, 14:43.000 --> 14:46.000 a term which is clearly defined, right? 14:46.000 --> 14:48.000 So where we all agree or not, 14:48.000 --> 14:49.000 where we all can say, 14:49.000 --> 14:50.000 yeah, this is the true, 14:50.000 --> 14:51.000 the true way here, 14:51.000 --> 14:53.000 or this is, this is the path we need to go. 14:53.000 --> 14:55.000 No, it's, it's about discussions. 14:55.000 --> 14:58.000 It's, it's about finding our ways 14:58.000 --> 15:03.000 to, to handling global social and societal questions, 15:03.000 --> 15:06.000 which, which can't be addressed just as a, 15:06.000 --> 15:07.000 as a license. 15:07.000 --> 15:08.000 However, 15:08.000 --> 15:09.000 and I, 15:09.000 --> 15:12.000 I also do believe that ultimately we should have, 15:12.000 --> 15:13.000 in particular, 15:13.000 --> 15:15.000 when we talk about AI Free Software, 15:15.000 --> 15:18.000 since this helps us to better understand what's happening there, 15:18.000 --> 15:22.000 to, to better understand where we could go with this. 15:22.000 --> 15:24.000 And this helps us to debate around this, 15:24.000 --> 15:26.000 since we have way more, 15:26.000 --> 15:27.000 for example, transparency, 15:27.000 --> 15:28.000 and, and by thus, 15:28.000 --> 15:29.000 we can, 15:29.000 --> 15:33.000 they better understand how to live and handle this. 15:33.000 --> 15:34.000 And, and that's why the, 15:34.000 --> 15:37.000 the Free Software license in this regard is important. 15:37.000 --> 15:38.000 And we should value it. 15:38.000 --> 15:39.000 However, 15:39.000 --> 15:41.000 it won't help us to fix 15:41.000 --> 15:44.000 all the evil in the world. 15:44.000 --> 15:46.000 That's a nice sentence. 15:46.000 --> 15:47.000 All right. 15:47.000 --> 15:50.000 I hear that there was more happening, actually, 15:50.000 --> 15:52.000 than this panel. 15:52.000 --> 15:54.000 Yeah, absolutely. 15:54.000 --> 15:57.000 Which I'm quite sure there will be a recording 15:57.000 --> 16:00.000 and the recording hopefully will be released soon 16:00.000 --> 16:03.000 and we will link to it in the show notes. 16:03.000 --> 16:04.000 Absolutely. 16:04.000 --> 16:05.000 And also, 16:05.000 --> 16:08.000 but the super interesting is that already decides 16:08.000 --> 16:10.000 are already there from all the talks 16:10.000 --> 16:12.000 on the panel discussion, obviously not. 16:12.000 --> 16:13.000 But also from the talks, 16:13.000 --> 16:15.000 the slides are already available. 16:15.000 --> 16:17.000 So you can click through them. 16:17.000 --> 16:20.000 Normally they are also quite quick in releasing the videos. 16:20.000 --> 16:22.000 And you will find them. 16:22.000 --> 16:23.000 The talks we, 16:23.000 --> 16:24.000 where we have been around, 16:24.000 --> 16:27.000 you will also find them on https://media.fsfe.org. 16:27.000 --> 16:30.000 But also we will find them on the social media channels 16:30.000 --> 16:31.000 of the SFS, 16:31.000 --> 16:32.000 S, Scon itself. 16:32.000 --> 16:35.000 And there have been way more interesting debates. 16:35.000 --> 16:36.000 We had, 16:36.000 --> 16:37.000 for example, 16:37.000 --> 16:39.000 debates about the feedback. 16:39.000 --> 16:40.000 There have been, 16:40.000 --> 16:43.000 I myself gave a talk about the funding topic, 16:43.000 --> 16:46.000 which you also addressed here in the podcast. 16:46.000 --> 16:49.000 My colleague Johannes talked about the procurement, 16:49.000 --> 16:51.000 reform, public money, public code, 16:51.000 --> 16:53.000 what to expect there. 16:53.000 --> 16:57.000 My colleague Darryl talked about route of freedom in Italy. 16:57.000 --> 16:58.000 Lucas, 16:58.000 --> 16:59.000 we all know him, 16:59.000 --> 17:00.000 the fighter for the M.A. 17:00.000 --> 17:02.000 And the apple case, 17:02.000 --> 17:08.000 where he fights about software freedom in front of the ECJ. 17:08.000 --> 17:10.000 So there have been also, 17:10.000 --> 17:12.000 and other super interesting talks, 17:12.000 --> 17:15.000 I said it's a two day conference with many talks, 17:15.000 --> 17:16.000 many stages, 17:16.000 --> 17:17.000 and many, 17:17.000 --> 17:19.000 many parallel tracks. 17:19.000 --> 17:21.000 So there's really a lot to see. 17:21.000 --> 17:23.000 And even I was not able to, 17:23.000 --> 17:26.000 to see all the talks that I wanted to see, 17:26.000 --> 17:28.000 since I said something happened parallel, 17:28.000 --> 17:32.000 or you have been in a meeting or in a chat with someone. 17:32.000 --> 17:34.000 It was so interesting that you, 17:34.000 --> 17:35.000 that you missed a talk. 17:35.000 --> 17:36.000 So, 17:36.000 --> 17:37.000 and yeah, 17:37.000 --> 17:41.000 the recordings definitely help to catch up with all the interesting debates there. 17:41.000 --> 17:43.000 Also some practical questions, 17:43.000 --> 17:44.000 so a talk, 17:44.000 --> 17:47.000 which I really liked a lot was one by Alexios, 17:47.000 --> 17:51.000 who is also part of our Youth Hacking 4 Freedom competition. 17:51.000 --> 17:53.000 He's working for Intel, 17:53.000 --> 17:54.000 and he talked, for example, 17:54.000 --> 17:58.000 about how to handle AI in the OSPOL in the company. 17:58.000 --> 17:59.000 So, 17:59.000 --> 18:01.000 so in the open source program office. 18:01.000 --> 18:03.000 So what do you need to do? 18:03.000 --> 18:04.000 And what does it mean, 18:04.000 --> 18:05.000 basically in reality, 18:05.000 --> 18:07.000 and how do people who work there? 18:07.000 --> 18:09.000 Then handle these problems. 18:09.000 --> 18:10.000 If they are, 18:10.000 --> 18:11.000 ending up at their desk, 18:11.000 --> 18:12.000 right, 18:12.000 --> 18:13.000 so often we discuss AI. 18:13.000 --> 18:15.000 I would say from a, 18:15.000 --> 18:16.000 from a bit far away, 18:16.000 --> 18:17.000 so we have vague ideas. 18:17.000 --> 18:18.000 And so, 18:18.000 --> 18:19.000 and so, 18:19.000 --> 18:20.000 and so, 18:20.000 --> 18:21.000 and so, 18:21.000 --> 18:22.000 and so, 18:22.000 --> 18:23.000 and so, 18:23.000 --> 18:24.000 and so, 18:24.000 --> 18:25.000 and so, 18:25.000 --> 18:26.000 and so, 18:26.000 --> 18:27.000 and so, 18:27.000 --> 18:28.000 and so, 18:28.000 --> 18:29.000 and so, 18:29.000 --> 18:30.000 and so, 18:30.000 --> 18:31.000 and so, 18:32.000 --> 18:33.000 and so, 18:33.000 --> 18:35.000 that differently. 18:35.000 --> 18:37.000 So we have vague ideas, 18:37.000 --> 18:38.000 and so we have vague ideas. 18:38.000 --> 18:42.000 And there 18:42.000 --> 18:44.000 and this told me I have seen someone who's not necessarily coming 18:44.000 --> 18:48.000 with AI but it's being confronted with the AI that he needs 18:48.000 --> 18:49.000 to handle in his OSPOL, 18:49.000 --> 18:50.000 and there was also super interesting talk. 18:50.000 --> 18:51.000 So there are many, 18:51.000 --> 18:53.000 many different talks that, 18:53.000 --> 18:55.000 that were super interesting. 18:55.000 --> 18:56.000 And not only covering ethics, 18:56.000 --> 18:58.000 but also practical issues. 18:58.000 --> 19:04.720 many children showed up where there was the other readings, why so much here for this 19:04.720 --> 19:11.600 children book, this other, so where these children were running around and reading the book 19:11.600 --> 19:16.480 and then they had a programming session where they learned programming and then they had ice 19:16.480 --> 19:22.640 creams and they had popcorn. So it was also that there were some really nice moments at this conference 19:22.640 --> 19:29.760 which was really nice which you maybe won't find at the recordings. Yeah it's children's 19:30.240 --> 19:33.520 but anyhow so also this happened at this conference or it was not just like 19:34.240 --> 19:40.240 professionals talking about their business but also yeah many emotional moments that happened 19:40.240 --> 19:46.240 at this conference that made it very nice to be there so if you haven't been to this conference 19:47.040 --> 19:51.520 then I can just highly recommend to go there next year it's also always happening 19:51.600 --> 19:55.600 in the beginning of November I'm not really sure about the next date but if you go to the 19:55.600 --> 20:01.280 website of the SFSCON they might release the date or already have released the date for the next 20:01.280 --> 20:08.160 year and it's definitely happening in the beginning of November. It's the 13th and 14th of November 20:08.160 --> 20:15.520 2026. This is the date. Mark this take part in the call for papers and even if you are not around 20:15.520 --> 20:20.560 there as a speaker I'll go there as a participant it's a really nice conference and also 20:20.560 --> 20:27.040 personally I have to say I like the area a lot there are many mountains so if you if you have 20:27.040 --> 20:33.120 the chance to stay one day longer I can highly recommend to visit the area there I go for a hike 20:33.120 --> 20:37.840 go in the mountains it's just so lovely there and yeah that makes it a really nice conference 20:37.840 --> 20:44.000 with a nice experience not only at the conference but where you can also spend some free time 20:44.000 --> 20:48.160 in the mountains which makes it at least for me very very nice conference. It sounds a bit like 20:48.240 --> 20:53.600 there's a lot of community that you experience there and that comes together and yeah 20:54.880 --> 21:00.160 exchanges ideas about Free Software about current debates and just 21:02.080 --> 21:09.040 enjoys to network or to talk with each other. Absolutely and normally always for auto run into 21:09.040 --> 21:14.720 new people and and hear about new ideas so and this is like auto in the evenings in the bars 21:15.360 --> 21:21.920 it's it's it's just nice to yeah meet people exchange and have a have a really nice time there 21:22.480 --> 21:30.160 and normally you also learn a bit or even a bit more and that makes it yeah very nice experience 21:30.160 --> 21:37.040 to go there. Was there something that stood out to you a lot? Timers running fast I know you 21:37.040 --> 21:42.640 already mentioned the best talk you attended or one of the best that you attended as you 21:43.520 --> 21:48.880 as you also sounded it was like a very busy conference there but was there something that stood 21:48.880 --> 21:56.480 out to you and that you wanted to share with our listeners? I do believe it it was also the 21:56.480 --> 22:03.360 conversations I had after my talk on funding but also Jordan from from the also the 22:03.360 --> 22:08.560 negative impact on the cyber resilience act and this is still something which you which you 22:08.560 --> 22:14.960 see a lot being discussed there on these kind of conferences too where people discuss the topic 22:14.960 --> 22:20.800 of funding so and this is something which is it's a lot around the discussion so cyber resilience 22:20.800 --> 22:29.200 act new regulations but also we see that we have issues with core infrastructure but also on the 22:29.280 --> 22:36.400 other hand innovation procurement so whenever we talk about these kind of topics ultimately you see 22:36.400 --> 22:43.680 people in the end talking about funding and money and this is something where I really do believe 22:43.680 --> 22:49.840 that yeah this is our this is our call for a secured long term funding for the software which is 22:50.960 --> 22:56.400 pulled by private and public money is something which we really need to follow up and where we 22:57.120 --> 23:03.360 was good that we started this initiative some yeah I'd say now years ago to think about 23:03.360 --> 23:08.960 these important questions because it's more and more arising and becoming more and more clear 23:08.960 --> 23:15.920 that we need to address these issues and also what I really liked added to this is that I had 23:15.920 --> 23:22.080 a conversation with Sebastian from Appel that he not only have to think about funding but also 23:22.720 --> 23:30.160 mental health maybe of the people in our community so often we see people that maybe run into burnouts 23:30.160 --> 23:38.000 or that are facing so many problems with their projects that they might be overwhelmed with 23:38.000 --> 23:42.400 whatever they do and I also do believe that this is something where we where we need to have an 23:42.400 --> 23:50.400 eye on that we that we make sure that our community yeah it's not burning out at one point but that 23:50.400 --> 23:56.080 we also not only value their work and in this regard I think it was also super nice that we had 23:56.080 --> 24:02.320 the software freedom awards which this year also came when to to real see a very nice community 24:02.320 --> 24:06.880 project but ultimately it's not only about value in the world but that we also think about more of 24:06.880 --> 24:13.520 like in a way of like sustaining project or to have sustainable project that we that we look 24:13.520 --> 24:17.920 not only at the project but at the people behind and I also do believe that this is something 24:18.000 --> 24:23.120 what you're doing we see we see a lot for software day and in particular like for the next 24:23.120 --> 24:28.240 edition it's very very want to thank maintainers that this is something which is absolutely going 24:28.240 --> 24:33.040 in the right direction and which is addressing also some of these issues which we which we sometimes 24:33.040 --> 24:39.280 do not see or which we do not value that much that there are people behind this and that these people 24:39.280 --> 24:44.960 sometimes really struggle and that we the bare minimum is that we thank them but that we also 24:44.960 --> 24:50.720 think about like how can we make this all a more cozy environment so to say how can we secure 24:50.720 --> 24:55.520 the future of Free Software yeah absolutely I like that and I will take that as a closing word 24:55.520 --> 25:02.560 because time is running so fast again Alex yes thank you so much thank you thank you for having 25:02.560 --> 25:08.320 me it was as always as well as a real pleasure and I'm so happy that you took the time that you 25:09.120 --> 25:15.920 shared your experience from the software SFSCON from the software freedom conference in 25:15.920 --> 25:25.520 Bolzano yeah thanks so much thank you bunny this was the software freedom podcast if you liked 25:25.520 --> 25:31.520 this episode please recommend it to your friends and rate it stay tuned for more inspiring 25:31.520 --> 25:37.600 conversations that explore the importance of software freedom and its impact on our digital lives 25:38.480 --> 25:44.640 this podcast is presented to you by the Free Software foundation Europe and BR charity that 25:44.640 --> 25:50.720 works on promoting software freedom if you like our work please consider supporting us 25:50.720 --> 25:58.640 with our donation you find more information under fsfe.org slash donate thank you so much for 25:58.640 --> 26:02.480 listening and see you next month thank you so much 26:09.280 --> 26:24.240 hey I'm Alex senior policy consultant from the Free Software Foundation Europe one of my favorite 26:24.240 --> 26:30.720 podcasts is Linux in laws i very much enjoyed their insightful discussions about Free Software 26:30.720 --> 26:35.680 and in the end i always have to love about their funny discussions so give them a try under 26:35.680 --> 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