SFP#52: Policy and EU: Insights from the T-DOSE conference and the Dutch community
SFP#52 Policy and EU: Insights from the T-DOSE conference and the Dutch community
Back to the episode SFP#52
WEBVTT 00:00.000 --> 00:17.600 Hello and welcome to the Software Freedom Podcast. 00:17.600 --> 00:22.440 Thank you so much our dear listener for listening to this podcast without you, this would not 00:22.440 --> 00:23.600 be possible. 00:23.600 --> 00:25.120 So thank you very much. 00:25.120 --> 00:28.880 This podcast is brought to you by the Free Software Foundation Europe. 00:29.120 --> 00:33.040 We are charity that empowers users to control technology. 00:33.040 --> 00:36.480 I'm Bonnie Mehring and today I'm here with Nico Rikken. 00:36.480 --> 00:44.320 Nico is a long-term FSFE volunteer and yeah he has been around for quite a while now and I'm 00:44.320 --> 00:48.400 very very happy to have you here Nico on the Software Freedom Podcast. 00:48.400 --> 00:49.840 Thank you so much for making it. 00:51.040 --> 00:52.160 Yeah, hi, Bonnie. 00:52.160 --> 00:53.200 Thanks for having me. 00:53.200 --> 00:55.360 It's great to be on the podcast. 00:56.320 --> 00:59.680 So far we have never managed to record an episode before, right? 00:59.680 --> 01:06.000 So this is the first time you're here but we did record the ending of one episode. 01:07.280 --> 01:08.160 Yeah, that's true. 01:08.160 --> 01:13.440 So then was my first first appearance on the podcast and now let's see what we end up. 01:14.160 --> 01:15.440 Very, very curious. 01:16.160 --> 01:22.720 All right, Nico how did your journey with the FSFE start and then exactly did you join the FSFE? 01:23.440 --> 01:29.760 I joined the FSFE in the beginning of May 2014 and I was invited on the mailing list 01:29.760 --> 01:38.560 and there I was invited by Felix to also come to the local Nijmegen Linux user group 01:38.560 --> 01:40.240 which is quite close to where I live. 01:40.800 --> 01:43.600 So I joined and then Felix immediately asked, 01:43.600 --> 01:45.920 fired at me like, oh yeah, T-DOSE is coming up. 01:45.920 --> 01:50.160 Will he want to join and there will be good and you can help with the booth. 01:50.160 --> 01:51.840 So before I know it, there was T-DOSE. 01:53.280 --> 01:59.200 And then before I know it, it was, well, if you like T-DOSE, you might as well come to FOSDEM. 02:00.320 --> 02:07.920 And for me, even coming to the local Linux user group, before going there, 02:08.480 --> 02:12.400 for me free and open source software was something that I was doing online, 02:13.120 --> 02:18.960 on my room, on the couch with the laptop, reading, maybe posting some things. 02:19.920 --> 02:25.360 And then to be in a group of people that all think along the same lines as you do, 02:26.240 --> 02:31.040 there was so heartwarming that I wanted to have more of that and I found that from the Linux user 02:31.040 --> 02:37.200 group then to T-DOSE and then to, wow, if you look at FOSDEM, it's overwhelming the amount 02:37.200 --> 02:41.760 of energy and like many people that you meet there. So that's really great. 02:42.720 --> 02:46.160 So because I've had this very interesting, now you had this local user, 02:46.160 --> 02:53.200 Linux user group, who is also connected to the FSFE with Felix and who invited you to the mailing 02:53.200 --> 03:00.080 list and invited you to all of those events. But you are very much engaged with all of us now, 03:00.080 --> 03:06.000 like you're, you could be our co-workers, that's how much you do for the FSFE sometimes. 03:07.600 --> 03:13.520 So I'm wondering, what made you stick around there? Like, I joined the FSFE to make an impact 03:13.520 --> 03:19.200 in the world. At least that was my idea because I found it important. Also at that time, 03:19.200 --> 03:24.000 there was the Snowden leaks. I thought there's a lot of people concerned about privacy, but actually, 03:24.000 --> 03:28.800 how do you get privacy when you have no control on the devices underpinning that privacy in the digital 03:28.800 --> 03:35.040 world? And I didn't see many people having that mindset that there was really important. 03:35.040 --> 03:40.080 And looking for that, I found that FSFE. I was familiar with that by the open source software, 03:40.160 --> 03:47.040 but I wasn't as much familiar with the ideas behind it. And looking at FSFE is like, 03:47.040 --> 03:52.560 ah, would there be a European counterpart? And before I know that, I found FSFE. And 03:54.160 --> 04:00.560 getting more engaged with FSFE, I found lots of friendly people, and we were all trying to 04:00.560 --> 04:07.120 make an impact. And I could really see the impact that we were making. And it's also a nice European 04:07.200 --> 04:14.000 network to, yeah, being engaged with different cultures, different viewpoints, and everybody so 04:14.000 --> 04:23.520 friendly. And yeah, I really like that. So for me, it's on one hand doing something that's 04:23.520 --> 04:29.360 good for society, I think. I'm really convinced about that. But also, we do it together with the 04:29.360 --> 04:35.120 whole whole community of FSFE, which gives me a lot of energy and fulfillment. Wow, thank you very 04:35.120 --> 04:40.960 much. Very happy to have you here. And I hope we keep having you around for quite a while. 04:40.960 --> 04:48.480 Yeah, thank you. I'm sure I will. So today we will be talking about the Dutch conference called 04:48.480 --> 04:55.760 T-DOSE. I'm not quite sure if I'm pronouncing this correct. I guess I am. It's English, or? 04:56.960 --> 05:02.000 Yeah, I think it's intended to be pronounced English. Everybody talks about T-DOSE. 05:02.880 --> 05:08.640 But the funny thing is, it could be a play on words, I don't know, but with a T-Box, but I don't 05:08.640 --> 05:14.560 know if that's a case. It has been called that. That's actually really funny. I will keep that in mind. 05:15.520 --> 05:19.760 But I don't know the origin of the name, actually. So that's the story I can't tell much about. 05:19.760 --> 05:25.280 Ah, alright. Don't worry. We will have enough to talk about, because this conference T-DOSE 05:25.280 --> 05:30.000 has just happened over the six and sevenths of June, so basically last weekend. 05:30.560 --> 05:36.960 Yeah, that was great. So we had a 20th edition of the T-DOSE conference. There was some 05:38.480 --> 05:42.720 of course, there were some editions that were skipped due to the pandemic and some other issues. 05:43.760 --> 05:49.280 But yeah, 20 editions, so that's nice. That's really, really nice. But where the editions, 05:49.280 --> 05:54.400 like during the pandemic, were there some online editions, or was this just there and merely 05:55.120 --> 06:01.680 like skipped and there was nothing happening? Yeah, it was quite tragic, I think, for T-DOSE. 06:01.680 --> 06:08.240 It's that before T-DOSE was in a school building. So after you had your high school, you could 06:08.240 --> 06:14.800 do studies there. And we had the whole place for the whole weekend. But unfortunately, we 06:14.800 --> 06:20.960 could no longer host T-DOSE there. And so the organization then was looking for another venue 06:20.960 --> 06:26.320 and then COVID hit. So there was like, I guess, three consecutive years of no conference, 06:26.880 --> 06:35.280 so that it is hard with all the continuity of such a conference. But ever since the pandemic, 06:35.280 --> 06:41.920 we're slowly growing in terms of attendees and the program and the organization. So I think 06:42.640 --> 06:48.880 last weekend was another bigger turnout than the year before and the year before that. So it's 06:48.960 --> 06:55.920 we're on an upward trend. Okay, so but let's take a step back and for everybody out there, what is T-DOSE? 06:57.280 --> 07:05.680 T-DOSE is the technical Dutch open source event. And it was started with the intention of being 07:05.680 --> 07:10.480 like a Mini-FOSDEM, or maybe not even mini, I don't know how the big ideas were at the time, 07:10.480 --> 07:16.400 but it's like we should have like something like FOSDEM in the Netherlands, specifically around 07:16.400 --> 07:24.960 the region of Eindhoven. And it is in a way like Fossom that it's free admittance. There's a 07:24.960 --> 07:31.440 couple of tracks. The talks are on the one hand, they are technical, but also more entry level and 07:31.440 --> 07:40.720 more different kind of aspects about society, impact, could be privacy. There was a workshop 07:40.720 --> 07:47.760 last weekend about musical, so about editing musical annotations of sheet music. So there's 07:48.560 --> 07:54.960 a part of the program that can go in different directions. And I think that specifically the fact that 07:54.960 --> 08:02.160 it's free admittance and that it's a number of booths also from community projects like including 08:02.160 --> 08:08.560 the FSFE, but also about Debian and the local hackerspace and some others. It really has this 08:08.560 --> 08:16.240 community vibe to it. And some people are just living there locally, they come to see what's up, 08:17.120 --> 08:20.800 sometimes you have people from the community that only have a couple of hours to spend, 08:20.800 --> 08:27.280 then they draw by and say hello. So it's a really easy sort of family-like event. 08:28.240 --> 08:35.200 That sounds really cozy. Yeah it is. Is it like that the Dutch people come together, 08:35.280 --> 08:38.480 or are there also people from outside of the Netherlands? 08:39.680 --> 08:43.760 I've mentioned people there over the years that were not from the Netherlands, 08:44.800 --> 08:49.760 but that's a rarity I'd say. All right. Why is it focused on Eindhoven? 08:51.200 --> 08:55.360 I think they just started it. The first edition was a university of Eindhoven. 08:56.160 --> 09:02.880 And yeah, there was no reason to leave the region also because the main volunteers are from the 09:02.880 --> 09:09.360 region. And well, the region itself, proud of itself, are being the brain port region. 09:09.920 --> 09:17.200 So there should be enough tech and IT to go around. Okay, so this is like the technical center 09:17.200 --> 09:26.960 of the Netherlands. Depends on your ask. So if you talk about finance and maps about the 09:26.960 --> 09:34.560 Tom Tom booking the big right, that's all an Amsterdam. But if outside of that anything chips and 09:34.560 --> 09:40.640 better, I'd say yeah, then the brain port region around Eindhoven is so maybe even more high tech, 09:40.640 --> 09:46.160 but that depends on how you look at it. All right. Now I learned something new. Thank you very much. 09:46.720 --> 09:57.200 Okay, so this T-DOSE started 20 years ago. This makes 2006. And during those past years, 09:57.200 --> 10:04.960 you joined the core team of T-DOSE and also you're now like organizing T-DOSE with others. 10:04.960 --> 10:09.360 How did this all start? Of course, I was already attending T-DOSE 10:10.320 --> 10:16.720 most of the editions ever since I joined. And I was familiar with the people from the community 10:16.720 --> 10:22.400 also through other events. And it's like, hey Niko, you're also and this more has maybe more to do 10:22.400 --> 10:28.000 with my day job. You're also involved with the public sector and could you maybe help us 10:28.000 --> 10:33.360 get more of the public sector and highlight all the good stuff that is happening in the Netherlands and 10:33.360 --> 10:38.720 work on a track? Well, we didn't. I didn't manage to fill a whole track that year, but I did find 10:38.720 --> 10:44.000 some speakers. And before I know it, it's like, oh, you have some good skills that we could use 10:44.000 --> 10:49.600 in the core team, which you want to help volunteer. So it was like three years ago. And yeah, 10:49.600 --> 10:55.440 trying to make the most of it. I mean, my time is limited. I try to help where I can. I'd say the 10:55.440 --> 11:00.960 rest of the core team is doing way more than I do, but I try to help where I can. That sounds 11:00.960 --> 11:07.280 really good. That sounds like you're a really close team and you're trying to get together and 11:07.760 --> 11:16.640 basically organize a conference for everybody in the Netherlands. Yes, we really try to make it 11:16.640 --> 11:25.360 a good cool event, get a good program. I'd say it's also a challenge with having such a team, 11:25.360 --> 11:30.160 which from the first community, we want to do all of everything ourselves. So we do the web server 11:30.160 --> 11:34.880 and we do the mail server and the website and everything. So it's quite a bit of a workload 11:34.880 --> 11:42.080 outside of even hosting the venue and getting the speakers and the booths and sponsors. Of course, 11:42.080 --> 11:51.760 that so much needed. I see. I needed to smile now because I'm like, isn't this the same 11:51.760 --> 11:58.400 of every single conference all over Europe? Everybody is like, I need my own infrastructure. I'm hosting 11:58.400 --> 12:05.360 this myself and I just think it's, I don't know why this is the case. You know what I mean? 12:05.920 --> 12:14.320 Yeah, this is sort of a bootstrapping problem. You have to get off the ground and who helps you. 12:14.320 --> 12:20.000 I must say I was also involved last year with the Postgres Day event, PG Day, you know. 12:21.280 --> 12:26.880 And in that case, it was really nice to be piggybacking on the Postgres Europe organization. 12:28.560 --> 12:33.200 I used that infrastructure for ticket sales and I think also for hosting the website and there 12:33.200 --> 12:38.640 was the Postgres community from the UK, I think, already had a template for the website. So 12:38.640 --> 12:45.440 bootstrapping a new conference in that way was rather easy. So I think it would be nice if there 12:45.440 --> 12:51.600 was more like that. But then thinking of it now, there's already pre-talks as sort of a main 12:51.600 --> 12:57.440 conference organizing software that we also leverage in TIDOS. So it's also a way to share and collaborate. 12:58.160 --> 13:03.120 Absolutely, absolutely. There are quite a lot of free software projects out there that make 13:03.120 --> 13:08.880 organizing conferences way more easy. And pre-talks is definitely one of them. 13:09.760 --> 13:14.000 So who is with you in the quarantine? I'm guessing it's not only you. 13:15.680 --> 13:25.120 No, that would be Wienke and Johan, a couple that I've known as long as I've been to TIDOS. 13:25.120 --> 13:29.200 They're really the backbone and carry also the weight in other conferences. 13:30.000 --> 13:39.360 And then Peter and Nick, Nick recently joined, but he's given a lot of energy to the team. 13:39.360 --> 13:45.760 So that's good. Yeah, Peter as a chair, I think the amount of hours he puts in is overwhelming. 13:45.760 --> 13:51.280 And I should not forget Marta also talking IT infrastructure and the design because 13:52.240 --> 13:57.760 yeah, we're on a podcast, so you can't see, but the sticker I have last week and I had is 13:58.720 --> 14:03.840 an online effort person with a festive head for the 20-year celebration. And each and every year we 14:03.840 --> 14:15.680 have a different icon. And also Nina is the daughter of Johan and Wienke who made the characters 14:15.680 --> 14:20.480 for the last few years. And so each and every year we try to get a unique design. 14:21.280 --> 14:25.680 And they'll get printed on shirts, they'll get printed on marks. So before you know, 14:25.680 --> 14:30.400 if you attend TIDOS, you have a whole stack of marks and T-shirts of each and every edition. 14:31.760 --> 14:34.080 Okay, now I definitely need to come next year. 14:36.160 --> 14:42.160 All right, so this is quite a full team. And what's the something that you find really outstanding 14:42.160 --> 14:48.320 and that really struck you off TIDOS where you're like, oh, this is a point of view that I have 14:48.320 --> 14:58.000 not thought about before. I was mostly manning the booth. So I didn't see much talks, but in one 14:58.000 --> 15:04.720 of the discussions we had about digital autonomy at the booth and sort of devil's advocate question 15:04.720 --> 15:10.320 that came up was, well, how do you think we can establish a digital autonomy in Europe and a 15:10.320 --> 15:17.120 free and open source software business ecosystem? If there's no sort of a thin layer of a 15:17.120 --> 15:24.560 proprietary around the free and open source software to have like a cutting edge and to make sure 15:24.560 --> 15:34.800 you're not undercut by other players in a global market. So I think that was a there was a very 15:35.120 --> 15:44.560 I think there was a spicy question to make you think like how do we see to support our free 15:44.560 --> 15:52.000 no source ecosystem and make sure that the businesses that put in the effort are driving and can 15:52.000 --> 16:00.240 stay competitive. So the question was how to support free ends of their businesses and how they 16:00.240 --> 16:07.360 can still be competitive then in the free market against such monopolies. Yeah. 16:16.800 --> 16:24.960 Second to last episode. So SFP 50 it could be and I now find this very interesting because he 16:25.040 --> 16:31.120 also talked about monopolies and he was also pointing out how important the next generation 16:31.120 --> 16:38.320 internet program is in this regard because it is supporting those kinds of projects and also for 16:38.320 --> 16:45.440 the FSFE do keep calling for a long term funding of free software projects because basically all 16:45.440 --> 16:49.680 of those free software projects all of you know this is case the comics so I don't need to 16:50.320 --> 16:58.880 reference it more but all the free software projects they are also in other projects like 16:58.880 --> 17:06.400 non free software projects and they do need this kind of project even the monopolies because 17:06.400 --> 17:13.040 they are built on those and therefore we do need this long term funding that the FSFE is calling 17:13.360 --> 17:20.960 for. What do you think about that answer? I think that's very good especially from from the 17:20.960 --> 17:27.440 standpoint of FSFE that makes a whole lot of sense I think it's for the business associations 17:27.440 --> 17:36.320 so in the nanos we recently had a business association sort of get a revival the Dutch open source 17:36.320 --> 17:42.880 business alliance and I think it's more for them to also say okay we need businesses and 17:42.880 --> 17:52.800 competitiveness which may be less of a concern for FSFE I think we both want a thriving 17:53.760 --> 17:59.680 fossil ecosystem. Absolutely. Was there something else that you found really that struck you 17:59.680 --> 18:05.520 or where you thought like oh this tea does is especially nice compared to other conferences 18:05.520 --> 18:13.200 or like yeah anything in digital guard. Tea does for me really has this community feel of people 18:13.200 --> 18:21.840 that are really fast-minded and it's not a regular tech conference but also it's a smaller scale 18:22.480 --> 18:28.800 maybe a way smaller scale than something like foster them so even mounting the booth of the FSFE 18:29.840 --> 18:36.640 at a certain time it was a bit low traffic because I was interesting talks going on and I had a chat 18:36.640 --> 18:44.320 with Sondorf was from the UB-ports booth as well from the community and he happens to be a teacher 18:44.320 --> 18:50.960 as well so what we're looking with the ad on Sangamon book is how can we leverage that book in education 18:51.840 --> 18:58.240 and we had a couple of chats all about that already at other events and this was a moment 18:58.240 --> 19:02.000 where we met and we had some time on our hands and we really started to go down 19:03.520 --> 19:08.480 like how does the Dutch education system work what are the terms that all the schools have to 19:08.480 --> 19:15.040 meet and how the book fit in so we now have I'm at least have some ideas how we can get to a 19:15.040 --> 19:22.400 concrete proposal to have a document added to the book that will help use the book in schools 19:22.400 --> 19:31.520 for anything digital digital education that's pretty cool yeah there's quite a number of people 19:31.520 --> 19:37.040 from the free and open source software community that I've come to know from Tidos 19:37.680 --> 19:43.200 because it's a rather it's a smaller event so you have more time on our hands to talk to certain 19:43.200 --> 19:49.520 people that's and then ideas like this get started that sounds really nice 19:50.480 --> 19:56.640 so will you be following up on that or what will be happening there next I think I just 19:56.640 --> 20:04.080 pressured myself by putting it in a podcast but I intend to I'm sorry for that you can tell me if 20:04.080 --> 20:10.640 I should cut it out no no I think it's all good and and actually one of the challenges there 20:10.640 --> 20:16.880 specifically about the education is that this is this is diverse across Europe so we have a 20:16.880 --> 20:24.000 a Dutch inside with Dutch terms and what is required but there's a whole international aspect 20:24.000 --> 20:32.960 today so we need to get started and then collaborate across nations to see how do we get something 20:32.960 --> 20:39.040 universal or that can be converted but you need to keep me posted on that so we need to do a 20:39.040 --> 20:46.240 another episode about how and Sangaman arrived in the Netherlands in the school system that will be 20:46.240 --> 20:52.160 great yeah all right but do you have for Tidos do you have something to recommend to all of us 20:52.160 --> 20:59.040 on us to have a look at yeah so most of the talks are actually recorded and they were live streamed 20:59.040 --> 21:04.640 this year last year they were recorded and broadcasted also on peer tube this year they were even 21:05.520 --> 21:12.480 live streamed to peer tube so the live stream should already be up if I understand correctly 21:13.200 --> 21:18.960 and one of the talks that had multiple people talked to me about how great it was was the talk 21:18.960 --> 21:24.640 by Michael Boelen there was a we promote and talk about open but are we actually doing it 21:24.640 --> 21:31.840 enough and what I got from other people because I didn't attend the talk instead it was very much 21:31.840 --> 21:43.360 about how to engage newcomers and and invite them in our false community one of the examples he 21:43.360 --> 21:52.960 was working on last year is to make a very beginner friendly Linux tutorial and write it in 21:52.960 --> 21:58.880 Dutch so it's really accessible and make it sort of universal so it's not just oh this is the 21:58.960 --> 22:04.800 the Debian guide or this is the Fedora guide now it is generic Linux and doesn't introduction 22:05.680 --> 22:14.720 and also that the way we provide present information and write the documentation has to be done 22:15.920 --> 22:21.840 with care to make sure that people can follow along and not that halfway through reading a 22:21.840 --> 22:26.800 tutorial they think oh this is too complex I lost what I was doing again and then 22:27.440 --> 22:36.160 they never get into it I know what you mean so that it's like more of a aiming to unbord people who 22:36.160 --> 22:44.400 are like not the technical kind of people but who would also like to be able to use Linux 22:45.920 --> 22:54.480 indeed yeah to get everybody to join in without dumbing down the content to still engage them 22:55.040 --> 23:01.920 which of course is challenging as any writer of documentation would do absolutely but it's 23:01.920 --> 23:10.000 really needed because I mean like there are loads of people out there who would like to be able to 23:10.000 --> 23:18.080 use free and open source software in their daily lives but it's just sometimes for them this 23:18.080 --> 23:25.120 feels more like a barrier and this kind of approach really preaches those this barrier and really 23:25.120 --> 23:33.600 helps to like get people unborded from inner and yeah get them from the to collect them from 23:33.600 --> 23:39.360 where they are standing and not be like first you need to step up here on my step and then we 23:39.360 --> 23:44.160 can talk you know what I mean like it's more about like getting down to their level and say come 23:44.160 --> 23:51.760 I'll take you with me come along yeah and also make sure that there's nothing that trips up 23:51.760 --> 23:57.920 somebody where they might get lost along the way and then say okay this is too complicated this 23:57.920 --> 24:04.400 is not for me and then give up I will watch this talk now because I'm like really 24:05.360 --> 24:12.960 it did I already opened the tab so I will keep it you got me hooked in apart from the amazing 24:12.960 --> 24:18.880 talks apparently that are happening there at Tito's and the workshops of course is there a 24:18.880 --> 24:24.640 challenge that Tito's is also facing currently I heard you mentioning that there's also some 24:26.160 --> 24:32.560 some wish to have more sponsors and to get people from outside the Netherlands attracted 24:32.560 --> 24:42.080 there how do you want to achieve that is that a mean question no that's not a mean question how do 24:42.080 --> 24:48.800 we want to achieve that by growing the event and making it more relevant and just I think 24:48.800 --> 24:55.200 especially for sponsors it's amazing how many organizations are willing to sponsor if you ask 24:55.200 --> 25:01.760 them and make sure that the events aligns with their goals because often the event does but they 25:01.760 --> 25:09.360 are not aware of how what Tito's is and how it relates to them so I think sponsorship for example 25:09.360 --> 25:17.040 is something that could be done a lot with effort from the core team to send out more messages 25:17.040 --> 25:25.040 more emails do more calls to get more sponsors in and the second point of getting more attendees 25:25.840 --> 25:30.880 I think that has to do with creating awareness so we're on pre-tube we are mustard on 25:32.960 --> 25:38.000 now on a podcast we have been on other podcasts as well to grow as well 25:38.560 --> 25:43.760 and reach more audience all right yeah I kind of found out was there so that was nice and he did 25:43.760 --> 25:53.680 some interviews and also there's a Dutch Angry Nerds podcast and you imagine two tables joined 25:53.680 --> 26:00.720 together and then like six people around it doing a collaborative podcast with a video live stream 26:00.720 --> 26:07.040 so they were there I think the first time two years ago and they in the in the hole where there's 26:07.040 --> 26:12.960 also the booths they just record the podcast they did that on Saturday and it did that on Sunday 26:12.960 --> 26:17.600 it's like a special podcast edition but it's also something that reached an audience and there's 26:17.600 --> 26:24.240 interaction when people from the booths or speakers can join in in the podcast and yeah it's really 26:24.240 --> 26:30.320 fun in the sense that it's like oh yeah somebody joins in in the podcast say what I want to say 26:30.320 --> 26:35.440 they have some discussion and it's like oh you you just get somebody else to fill up your seat 26:35.440 --> 26:41.760 and we reached around the topic so it's a continuous podcast with new people coming in 26:43.120 --> 26:48.720 maybe we can link it in the show notes that sounds really fun okay I'm very much looking forward 26:48.720 --> 26:54.800 now to be there next year on the fifth and sixth of June yes is there also something that our 26:54.800 --> 27:02.240 listeners can do as our final question to support Tito's and the organization yeah of course you 27:02.240 --> 27:09.920 can all come to the conference next year or another year but also if please share all the announcements 27:09.920 --> 27:17.360 and look at PiaTube what recordings of this year or the previous years and if you'd like something 27:17.360 --> 27:24.480 please share it around and yeah give some some more buzz about Tito's very nice thank you so much 27:25.200 --> 27:30.400 thank you so much also for taking the time and talking with me about Tito's very much 27:30.400 --> 27:38.160 appreciated yeah thank you this was the software freedom podcast if you like this episode please 27:38.160 --> 27:43.200 recommend Tito friends and rate it stay tuned for more inspiring conversations that 27:43.200 --> 27:49.760 explority importance of software freedom and its impact on our digital lives this podcast is 27:49.760 --> 27:55.360 presented to you by the free software foundation europe we are a charity that works on promoting 27:55.440 --> 28:04.240 software freedom if you like our word please consider supporting us with our donation you find more 28:04.240 --> 28:18.080 information under fsafi.org slash donate thank you so much bye bye