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Transcript of SFP#13: Free Software game "0 A.D. Empires Ascendant" with Stanislas Dolcini

Back to the episode SFP#13

This is a transcript created with the Free Software tool Whisper. For more information and feedback reach out to podcast@fsfe.org

WEBVTT

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Welcome to the Software Freedom Podcast. This podcast is presented to you by the Free Software Foundation Europe.

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We are a charity that empowers users to control technology.

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I'm Bonnie Merring and our guest for today is Stanislas Dolceini.

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Stanislas is a video game artist and contributes to the Free Software Video Game Zero AD Empires Accentant.

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Zero AD is a Free Software Ancient Warfare game, which is developed by the World Fire Games

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and Stanislas is also the current project leader of Zero AD Empires Accentant.

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Hi Stan.

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Hi.

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How are your first thoughts when you hear Free Software?

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Well, I think it's good. I have a very good feeling about Free Software. I'm a programmer for my other jobs

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so I tend to use stuff that is open source and free and leap when I care.

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I've always been someone who believes that it's important of sharing things

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and give them to the most people so they can make the most out of it.

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I'm really a free software enthusiast.

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How would you explain Zero AD Empires Accentance to a non-gamer?

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Well, I would say it's a game about building an empire.

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You would start with something really small, like a main building.

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You usually call the Civic Center.

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Starting from there, you would expand to colonize everything around the Civic Center

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and eventually fight with other people or the AI, the artificial intelligence that you can fight during the game.

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So, to put it simply, it's just a city builder game.

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If you've heard of Age of Empires, it's really similar to that game.

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Yeah, that's about it.

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And I was wondering, would you say that it's ever going to be finished

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and there's a final release?

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Well, I don't know.

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I'm pretty sure we are not any close to it.

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The thing is, it's open source, so anyone can feel contributing to the game

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and improving things.

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I don't think anything can ever be perfect.

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I think we can get close to something that is definitive

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and move on to another project.

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Actually, in the beginning of the project, they wanted to make several games.

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So, Welfare Games is the publisher.

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Azure AD is the name of the series, so, like Age of Empires.

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And the current game is Empires Incendent.

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And there was supposed to be a sequel called Empires Procedure,

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but we haven't started that yet.

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So, the idea was to make multiple games using the same engine.

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So, yeah, there are two things that are alpha by playing the game.

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There is the engine.

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Pyrogen is this.

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And there is the game, Empires Incendent.

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So, I think that the engine will never be finished.

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It's something that is constantly evolving,

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just like technology is constantly evolving.

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We always have new versions of languages,

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OSs, hardware, everything to support.

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So, it's going to be a constant fight to keep it working everywhere.

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But the game might get into somewhat finished state.

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But I don't think it's going to come soon,

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because we'll keep adding new features to the engine,

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making the game constantly evolving.

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What are some of the new features you have planned?

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There are a lot of things like, we wanted to add multiple attacks,

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per unit. So, for instance, an archer that would get attacked

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up close, which is like through a sword or something to fight

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in Nilly instead of ranged.

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Some people wanted to add acceleration,

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someone directional damage, someone trample,

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like when a horse gets into a pit of like units

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and just like smash everything around it.

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There are a lot of features that are depths

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to the fighting that we might want to add.

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But this is an entirely volunteer project.

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These things can take time.

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They need more time to get polished.

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And so, the features like can come really slow.

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So, there's still some features in the pipe

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that you're planning to implement, but you won't,

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you're not yet sure when they will be polished.

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When they will be implemented.

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I see, I see.

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I have also read that it's a really high priority for you

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and your team that you build stuff like very accurate

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and things like that.

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Yeah, there has been always a very eye drive

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to keep things historically accurate,

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which I mean a really, really frustrating way.

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For instance, there was some really nice buildings

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that were in Alpha 23 that we had to remove

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because they were not historically accurate.

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So, we try to keep things precise,

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like try to find archeological evidence

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about helmets, but swords, but whatever,

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or what the people to try to do at the time

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you give them meaningful technologies.

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And can in the hopes that you would learn some things

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from playing the game, like, I don't know,

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this, that sells invented barrels, for instance,

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or stuff like this.

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Oh, what do you say?

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Does it cost a lot of time?

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Because if I imagine this and if I think about

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how you have to do all this research,

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then you actually have to design a house

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or a barn or a horse or a gear.

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Yeah, it takes a lot of time.

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And usually it's not done by the same people.

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So, you get the nitpakers' historians

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and you get the artists that are trying to fit

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whatever they need to do.

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So, they have to change stuff a lot

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because, well, you don't know.

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No, they shouldn't be this there

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because it's not the same period

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or it doesn't belong there.

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And so, yeah, but it also

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allows people from different backgrounds

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and different expertise to join the project.

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So, for instance, if you're an historian,

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then you just want to get feedback and insights.

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It's good.

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One of the civilizations called the Kushits

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was entirely done by someone

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who would just say, oh, I love this civilization.

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I want to get a freak out into the game.

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Well, at least like,

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it's current Ethiopia, I think.

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But, yeah, it wanted to

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get that civilization to the game.

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So, it did a lot of research about

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archaeological findings,

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pictures and everything.

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And the research was so detailed

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that it motivated artists to start

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building stuff on top of it.

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And we got a new civilization in Alpha 23

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because of that.

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That's really impressive.

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Like, there's just one historian

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who is really a nerd

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for his field.

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And then it motivates a lot of people.

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Yeah.

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Regarding motivation, how did you start

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to contribute to Sierra A.D.

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Empire's Ascent?

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It's actually like not a funny story.

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I was working for Moots

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on another game called

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Intent Blade Warp End,

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which is a game where you play

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a strategic map

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and you try to conquer castle

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and you can also play

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in first person and, like,

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lead the siege to this castle.

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It's a pretty nice game.

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And what I wanted to do was

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learn to do 3D

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and, well, 3D art.

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And so I went on those forums

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and I started, like, making models.

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And it didn't go very well.

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Like, people were not

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really nice to me.

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They were pretty

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a lot of criticism.

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And it was not a really good time

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to be around.

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I was also really young.

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So I didn't, like, quite understand

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what was going on.

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And I had, like, this

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magazine about video games

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called

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The Video for Uncom.

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And it just, like, happened to...

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It wasn't a video. It was joystick.

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And it just happened that

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they were talking about 0.0.

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And I was like, okay, what is this?

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Like, let's try it out.

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I ran the game the first time

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and it crashed.

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And, like, let go for a bit of time.

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And then I went back

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and tried to do 3D.

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And people would just, like,

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a bit nicer to me there.

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So I would just, like, go

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and try to make new models.

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For the game.

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So in case, people are not aware.

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There are a lot of modes for 0.0.

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Because, yeah, the game itself

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is a mode for the engine.

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So you can, like, to design anything you want.

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There is a mode for

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Hyrule Conquest, which is a Zelda

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Samt word.

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There are, like, ponies

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ascendant, which is, like, my little pony

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in the game.

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There are modes

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about medieval periods.

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There are modes about the American revolution.

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There are modes about pirates.

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Ancient civilization

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before the time frame of the radio.

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There are a lot of things like this.

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So I started doing two modes.

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Like, one was called Millennium AD.

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Which is, well, medieval period.

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Like, 500 AD to 1080.

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So it was, like, civilization,

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like, current engines,

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north.

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And,

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and Anglo-Saxons.

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So we started working on that.

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And this is how I owned my skills

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of 3D and everything.

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And after six years.

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So I started contributing to 0.0.0 in 2011.

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But it took 2017 for me to actually

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get recognized and get into the team.

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Okay. Oh, I got it for a long time.

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Yeah, that was a very long time there.

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It's been a lot of frustration in that time

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because I was feeling I was not good enough

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to do anything for a long time.

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And eventually I made it.

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And this way I could, like, empower new artists.

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Like, get them to do the same way I did.

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But maybe faster.

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So it wouldn't be as frustrating.

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Okay.

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Was this also your motivation

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then to become part of the leader?

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That you want to be able to, like,

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get other artists click on board?

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It kind of fell on me.

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I wasn't, like, planning to do this.

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Like, when the former project leader resigned,

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I was like, no, this is bad.

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Like, I don't want this.

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Please don't kill my project.

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And it took me quite some time to accept it.

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Like, he resigned.

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But I don't know, three years ago or something.

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And I've only taken title, like,

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a few months back.

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I didn't feel like I deserved title

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or like I was up to the task and everything.

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But, yeah, so it wasn't like a choice.

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Like, I want to be, I want to be project leader.

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It was more of, I don't want my project to die.

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And I want to do everything in my power

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to keep it alive and keep it bringing

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whatever it has brought to me and other people over the years.

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So, yeah, I really wanted to make it, well, last longer.

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Okay, so you decided to become project leader

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or to take on the stuff.

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Great responsibility.

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Yeah, great power.

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Okay.

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Would you say there were some modifications

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from people contributing to zero AD and per centen,

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which are really disliked or which were even against your values?

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Yeah, there are a lot of things.

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Well, first of all,

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history is not really good to women and people of color.

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So, sometimes you have to play it on the fine line

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between getting things historically accurate

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and being like really bad,

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well, having like really bad teachers

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because to justify something.

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For instance, for a long while,

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women would just boost males in their area

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because they were females,

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which is, well, a bit preposterous.

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So, this was one of the things that was removed

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like in 2004, which took a long time

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because it has been like,

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it had been there forever.

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There are some features about gameplay,

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about that are not like liked.

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So, to give a little bit of context,

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Alpha 24 came out two years after Alpha 23,

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which means during that time,

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a lot of things changed inside the team

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and inside the game,

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meaning a lot of new features were added

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but not tested or changed

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or things were cleaned up,

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made more historically accurate,

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added and everything.

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And so, when Alpha 24 came out,

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it was a complete different game.

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It stayed the same,

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like the bassist was the same,

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but the game played a lot differently.

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And so, people were not used to it

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and they got pretty angry at it.

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We got a lot of answers,

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we got a lot of threads created on the forums

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about how we did wrong

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and we butchered the game

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and stuff like this.

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Yeah, it wasn't a really good time to be around.

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Oh my gosh, that sounds very horrible.

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Yeah, and I mean, it's fine.

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You can be angry about your favorite game,

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like being changed.

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But I think a lot of people forget

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that we're just doing this on a free time,

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and well, motivation doesn't come naturally.

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You have to work for it sometimes,

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like if you have stuff to do that needs to be done

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but you don't want to do it.

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Like, this is where it starts lacking the most.

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Like, everybody's insulting you,

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but you know, you need to do things

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to get things rolling again.

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It's really hard to get the motivation you need.

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But how do you get your motivation to work for,

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in your free time,

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for a very nice and very beautiful design video game?

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I believe it's about doing something greater than myself.

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And something else has driven me.

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I don't really like doing things for myself only.

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I just want to do things that are meaningful to other people.

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So I think if that's where I'm drawing my strength,

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like from the community,

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and the people who enjoy the game,

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from the people who you meet at Evans,

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and that says, oh, this is the greatest game I've ever played.

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I played all the time,

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or sometimes I once made a joke

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about the game winning his life

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and stopped playing it.

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But you know, those people,

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those people that are really into it,

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these are the people we do it for.

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And of course, there are some things that are nice.

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Like, I don't know why I just enjoy doing art sometimes.

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So I would just like stop,

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and everything I'm doing

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and just make a few icons for the game

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and just feel good about them.

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And then it gives you a little bit more motivation

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to do the boring task you have to do.

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I see.

16:43.000 --> 16:45.000
That sounds very nice as well.

16:45.000 --> 16:48.000
I also have another question for

16:48.000 --> 16:50.000
regarding the game in general,

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and this would be

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more personal kind of question for you,

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which is your favorite tribe,

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character, or even building in the game?

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That's a good question.

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Well, I really like one of the building

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that was which moved in it for 24.

17:09.000 --> 17:12.000
It was the gold tavern.

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Yeah, I really like that building.

17:15.000 --> 17:17.000
But most, I think,

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I really like the goals,

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the civilization.

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Like, it's one of the civilization.

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I contributed to the most, I think,

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and it's just like,

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well, it feels like home, I think.

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Ah, okay, very nice.

17:31.000 --> 17:33.000
For me personally, I,

17:33.000 --> 17:35.000
so far, I like the patience the most,

17:35.000 --> 17:36.000
to be honest.

17:36.000 --> 17:37.000
I don't know.

17:37.000 --> 17:40.000
I really like them.

17:40.000 --> 17:42.000
Ah, yeah, well, a lot of civilization.

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I think a lot of people consider the versions

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to be the one lacking love the most.

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We haven't touched them in a while,

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and they could probably use some kind of,

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like, new models and improvements.

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But they're pretty great.

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And I was really happy that two contributors

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stepped up to do the voices for them.

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Ah, okay, so people also contribute

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by doing sound samples or stuff like that.

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Yeah, you can actually contribute by doing a lot of things.

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So you can do 3D art, you can do programming,

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you can do social media stuff,

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you can do forum moderation,

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you can do...

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But you can also do sound design,

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you can create new sounds for the gaming,

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and you can record voices,

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so they can be used for civilization.

18:32.000 --> 18:34.000
For those voices,

18:34.000 --> 18:38.000
they also wanted to have them historically accurate.

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I mean, as much as possible,

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because it's a bit hard to know

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someone from 2000 years ago would just speak.

18:46.000 --> 18:49.000
But so, Persians play,

18:49.000 --> 18:52.000
speak some kind of Farsi, I think.

18:52.000 --> 18:56.000
Cushits, I actually did the Cushit voices

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with my ex-girlfriend,

18:59.000 --> 19:01.000
and they speak Cushit,

19:01.000 --> 19:03.000
or 80k, whatever.

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So, yeah, it's actually like,

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somebody did the research and did the phonetics and stuff.

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So we could just like pronounce the words like they would.

19:13.000 --> 19:15.000
So we also have Greek and Latin,

19:15.000 --> 19:18.000
and that's about it,

19:18.000 --> 19:22.000
and we hope to be able to add more in the future.

19:22.000 --> 19:26.000
I see you're really, really, historically accurate,

19:26.000 --> 19:30.000
how many people participate in the development of 080?

19:30.000 --> 19:36.000
It's hard to say, because when you say, I don't know, 20 people.

19:36.000 --> 19:41.000
Most people imagine 20 people working on their day job.

19:41.000 --> 19:44.000
So 8 hours per day and everything.

19:44.000 --> 19:45.000
But it's not like that.

19:45.000 --> 19:50.000
So, officially in the team, there are probably 20 people.

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But in terms of activity, we're more like two or three people,

19:56.000 --> 20:03.000
like active four hours a day or something, which is like a lot less.

20:03.000 --> 20:07.000
And some people like, yeah, you know, contributing in other ways.

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They make videos, they make, or they make content for the game.

20:11.000 --> 20:16.000
And it's hard to keep track of everything they do.

20:16.000 --> 20:20.000
So I'd say the community is probably like 200 people.

20:20.000 --> 20:28.000
But in terms of like actual contribution, like we're more like six, seven people.

20:28.000 --> 20:31.000
So there are like six, seven people that are really focused on the game

20:31.000 --> 20:33.000
and that they do a lot of stuff.

20:33.000 --> 20:36.000
And then there are a lot of people who do small things for the game.

20:36.000 --> 20:38.000
Yeah, I wouldn't say a lot of stuff.

20:38.000 --> 20:43.000
I would say small things and sometimes they get together and do big things.

20:43.000 --> 20:45.000
That's actually my job as project leader.

20:45.000 --> 20:50.000
Like it's to bring people to do something bigger than just like their own part.

20:50.000 --> 20:55.000
In their own area of expertise.

20:55.000 --> 20:59.000
So for example, designing a new tribe or what would be something bigger?

20:59.000 --> 21:01.000
Yeah, that would take a lot of work.

21:01.000 --> 21:10.000
Like you would take someone doing the history, someone doing the arts, someone doing the art assets,

21:10.000 --> 21:15.000
like all the XML files and stuff like you need to get the civilization to the game.

21:15.000 --> 21:21.000
You probably would need 2D artists to do the icons and stuff.

21:21.000 --> 21:28.000
You need maybe sound to add like, I don't know, maybe new animals that fits the civilization.

21:28.000 --> 21:34.000
And there is a lot of where there are a lot of different jobs that you need to concentrate.

21:34.000 --> 21:36.000
But you don't have to get it all at once.

21:36.000 --> 21:42.000
You can just like do the story part first, then do the art, then get it to the game,

21:42.000 --> 21:45.000
and then like do the final touches.

21:45.000 --> 21:47.000
Okay, I see.

21:47.000 --> 21:53.000
Where will you say is the most contribution needed?

21:53.000 --> 22:00.000
I'd say programming is one of the biggest areas.

22:01.000 --> 22:08.000
When people think programmers, they just think about someone getting behind a keyboard and just like typing code.

22:08.000 --> 22:11.000
But there are actually a lot of jobs there.

22:11.000 --> 22:15.000
We have like AI programmers that we work on the AI.

22:15.000 --> 22:20.000
We have random map programmers.

22:20.000 --> 22:23.000
So there are two types of maps in Z-rated.

22:23.000 --> 22:28.000
There are scrimmage maps and scenario maps, but there are the same type.

22:28.000 --> 22:30.000
And there are random maps.

22:30.000 --> 22:35.000
Scrimmage and scenario maps are made by hand.

22:35.000 --> 22:39.000
You just open the map editor in Z-rated and you place things by hand.

22:39.000 --> 22:43.000
And random maps are made using code.

22:43.000 --> 22:50.000
So you just like script, I don't know, getting some data from OpenStreetMap.

22:51.000 --> 22:57.000
And then that gives you the terrain layouts or you just like code all the mountains yourself and everything.

22:57.000 --> 23:00.000
So that's one area of the code you have to do.

23:00.000 --> 23:05.000
There are like graphics programmers, engine programmers.

23:05.000 --> 23:11.000
Then you have like each OS programming, whatever.

23:11.000 --> 23:16.000
So if you're working with macOS, you need to like have someone who actually got a Mac,

23:16.000 --> 23:21.000
which is usually something that doesn't come by often.

23:21.000 --> 23:24.000
So yeah, there is a lot of specificity everywhere.

23:24.000 --> 23:27.000
And we are maintaining the engine and the game.

23:27.000 --> 23:32.000
So then you have the gameplay programmers that only work on like tiny parts of like,

23:32.000 --> 23:36.000
well, you know, where our units interact.

23:36.000 --> 23:39.000
Like someone who would just like do the secondary attacks.

23:39.000 --> 23:43.000
That would be gameplay programmer.

23:43.000 --> 23:46.000
So yeah, so we need a lot of programmers there.

23:46.000 --> 23:50.000
And we usually need like people who have a bit of experience.

23:50.000 --> 23:53.000
Because a few people learned how to code.

23:53.000 --> 23:57.000
I think I sure did through Z-rated.

23:57.000 --> 24:01.000
But at some point at the end of the day, if you only have like junior people,

24:01.000 --> 24:09.000
you just have got a lot of bugs because you're just going to be trying to make sure everyone is doing that job correctly.

24:09.000 --> 24:12.000
And you just have to keep track of everything.

24:12.000 --> 24:17.000
And you don't get senior by just spending five years on the project.

24:17.000 --> 24:22.000
Because if you keep five years doing the same mistakes, then you're not learning anything.

24:22.000 --> 24:30.000
So yeah, it's important to have like people who have actual experience that have worked with other people that have,

24:30.000 --> 24:35.000
well, the do's and don't about programming.

24:35.000 --> 24:37.000
But we also need artists.

24:37.000 --> 24:38.000
We also need historians.

24:38.000 --> 24:42.000
We also need like some designers and stuff like to make new music.

24:42.000 --> 24:46.000
Artists is just about new making new civilization.

24:46.000 --> 24:47.000
Keep the mood alive.

24:47.000 --> 24:54.000
Like make the community grow and show the true power of the engine.

24:54.000 --> 24:59.000
Yeah, and for artists the same, you have like 3D artists.

24:59.000 --> 25:00.000
You have 2D artists.

25:00.000 --> 25:01.000
You have technical artists.

25:01.000 --> 25:06.000
You have well, you have animators, rigors.

25:06.000 --> 25:10.000
Well, a lot of kind of like specificity jobs and the thing.

25:10.000 --> 25:11.000
You can do everything.

25:11.000 --> 25:15.000
But then you just like, like me, you just ran out of time.

25:15.000 --> 25:20.000
I would like to do a bit of a topic speech.

25:20.000 --> 25:22.000
If that's okay with you.

25:22.000 --> 25:30.000
And I would like to talk a bit more about how zero AD empiricism became free software.

25:30.000 --> 25:31.000
Yeah.

25:31.000 --> 25:32.000
Sure.

25:32.000 --> 25:36.000
What was the, I read that it wasn't always free software.

25:36.000 --> 25:38.000
Or published on air free software license?

25:38.000 --> 25:39.000
No.

25:39.000 --> 25:40.000
Okay.

25:40.000 --> 25:42.000
So yeah, no, it wasn't always free software.

25:42.000 --> 25:44.000
At the beginning, I think.

25:44.000 --> 25:49.000
So it started by edge of vampires' motives and edge of vampires' players.

25:49.000 --> 25:57.000
Getting together to make a game that would be different from edge of vampires with less limitations.

25:57.000 --> 26:00.000
And it was like around the early 2000s.

26:00.000 --> 26:05.000
They came together and started designing things like how they wanted it to be.

26:05.000 --> 26:11.000
We still have the document with all the things they designed during that time.

26:11.000 --> 26:14.000
There are historians, there are people interested in the story.

26:14.000 --> 26:19.000
There are programmers, there are a lot of great people at the time.

26:19.000 --> 26:24.000
And so, well, they started working on it as amateurs.

26:24.000 --> 26:28.000
They worked on it for about nine years, like from 2009.

26:28.000 --> 26:31.000
The problem was that when you work for something for so long,

26:31.000 --> 26:34.000
then life starts getting in the way.

26:34.000 --> 26:37.000
A lot of people came and went.

26:37.000 --> 26:39.000
People got married.

26:39.000 --> 26:41.000
People died too.

26:41.000 --> 26:46.000
One of the original founders died to cancer in 2006.

26:46.000 --> 26:53.000
And so, well, the focus shifted for a lot of people during their own lives.

26:53.000 --> 27:01.000
And they ended up realizing that they could not bring their dream to be real in the current state.

27:01.000 --> 27:05.000
So they said, what if we make it open source?

27:05.000 --> 27:07.000
Maybe people would be interested.

27:07.000 --> 27:14.000
And maybe we can continue to, I don't know, like, yeah, make it better.

27:14.000 --> 27:18.000
And it worked because like 10 years later, I'm still there.

27:18.000 --> 27:25.000
I only joined in 2011, so I wasn't there at the time of the open source thing of the game.

27:25.000 --> 27:28.000
The release, as some people say.

27:28.000 --> 27:35.000
So yeah, they decided to make it open source for that reason, to keep it alive, I think.

27:35.000 --> 27:39.000
The more information can be found on the website.

27:39.000 --> 27:44.000
Okay, do you know if the migration, thank you very much for this quick recap.

27:44.000 --> 27:52.000
Do you know how the migration process went, like, better any hurdles, or did it all that very smoothly?

27:52.000 --> 28:03.000
I don't think it was that hard, but it must have been easy either, because they had like assets that were proprietary,

28:03.000 --> 28:08.000
that they had to replace or buy licenses to be able to use them.

28:08.000 --> 28:13.000
Because as soon as you make everything open source, like, it gets open source forever,

28:13.000 --> 28:19.000
and you can't, like, deprive somebody from their artistic rights and stuff like this.

28:19.000 --> 28:25.000
It, it depends on the country, but in, for instance, in France, like, if I make an art piece,

28:25.000 --> 28:28.000
I cannot concede all my rights to it.

28:28.000 --> 28:30.000
I'm not allowed by the law.

28:30.000 --> 28:37.000
I can, like, at any time, like, revoke the rights to it, because I'm the sole creator.

28:37.000 --> 28:42.000
And it, it depends on the legislation in the, in the country.

28:42.000 --> 28:45.000
So they probably had, like, some troubles with that.

28:45.000 --> 28:50.000
Then you need to get all the contributors that contributed for nine years to accept,

28:50.000 --> 28:58.000
to release their work, kind of for free, like, and to allow people to edit, modify, and change things.

28:58.000 --> 29:05.000
So it might have taken a long time to get everyone up to speed and to agree to things.

29:05.000 --> 29:11.000
Okay. So it did take at some times, but you wouldn't say there'd ever any big hurdles.

29:11.000 --> 29:14.000
No.

29:14.000 --> 29:22.000
What would you say is the main advantage of developing a free software game?

29:22.000 --> 29:27.000
I'd say it's the possibilities.

29:27.000 --> 29:34.000
If you develop a commercial game, then you have to please the shareholders.

29:34.000 --> 29:39.000
You have to reason time. You have to do things that will work.

29:39.000 --> 29:45.000
Whereas we can just, like, break everything, because just test things, see if that work doesn't.

29:45.000 --> 29:55.000
It does know we have no, like, restrictions on what we can do.

29:55.000 --> 30:03.000
Yeah, it's just, like, we're free to do whatever we want, but the price is only time.

30:03.000 --> 30:09.000
Because at the end of the day, you still have to invest in time. You want to be able to do things.

30:09.000 --> 30:13.000
Okay. So you would say it's like you have to sortistic freedom.

30:13.000 --> 30:17.000
Yeah. It's a, it's a, it's a crazy, it's a crazy freedom.

30:17.000 --> 30:22.000
Like, as I said, there was, there are so many modes about the game, like, you can work on any of them,

30:22.000 --> 30:27.000
you can even make them the main game you want to. Like, everything's possible.

30:27.000 --> 30:33.000
Okay. Then I would come to my last question.

30:33.000 --> 30:38.000
This has sadly nothing to do with zero AD anymore.

30:38.000 --> 30:43.000
Every year on the 14th of February, the FSFE organizes the ILOF free software day,

30:43.000 --> 30:48.000
as you have probably heard, because we are producing this podcast for the ILOF free software day.

30:48.000 --> 30:55.000
And the ILOF free software day is a chance to say, thank you to contributors to free software projects

30:55.000 --> 31:00.000
and yeah, to say, thank you for their work and their contribution.

31:00.000 --> 31:05.000
And my question is, who would you like to say thank you to?

31:05.000 --> 31:11.000
Well, so that's easy. I'd like to thank the free software foundationer for letting me do this podcast.

31:11.000 --> 31:22.000
But yeah, I'd like to thank mostly all the people who created theory for giving me such a great hobby.

31:22.000 --> 31:29.000
And I'd like to do like this. This is really cool.

31:29.000 --> 31:35.000
And yeah, so yeah, I'd like to thank all the people I'm working with right now for zero AD,

31:35.000 --> 31:40.000
because it wouldn't be possible without you either.

31:40.000 --> 31:41.000
Thank you, Sven.

31:41.000 --> 31:42.000
You're welcome.

31:42.000 --> 31:49.000
And thank you for your time. It was really nice having you as a guest for the ILOF free software day podcast episode.

31:49.000 --> 31:52.000
I hope I will talk to you in the future again.

31:52.000 --> 31:56.000
Me too. Maybe you will meet someday. I don't know.

31:56.000 --> 31:58.000
This was the software freedom podcast.

31:58.000 --> 32:04.000
If you liked this episode, please recommend it to your friends and subscribe to make sure you will get the next episode.

32:04.000 --> 32:08.000
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32:08.000 --> 32:11.000
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32:11.000 --> 32:15.000
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32:15.000 --> 32:19.000
You find more information on the FSFE.org slash donate.

32:19.000 --> 32:21.000
Bye bye.

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