Transcript of SFP#23: What is Free Software? A Christmas podcast to learn about Free Software
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WEBVTT 00:00.000 --> 00:19.440 Hello and welcome to Software Freedom Podcast. This podcast is brought to you by the free 00:19.440 --> 00:25.600 Software Foundation Europe and we are a charity that empowers users to control technology. 00:25.600 --> 00:31.280 For today's podcast, I have a bit of a special surprise for you. I have a whole bunch of very 00:31.280 --> 00:37.920 nice people here with me. I have Tobias, our system administrator. Yes, so one of the system 00:37.920 --> 00:43.760 administrators. That's right. I have Matthias Kirschner, our president of the Free Software 00:43.760 --> 00:51.440 Foundation Europe. Hi Matthias. Hello. And I have Gabriel Kuwebin, our part of the legal 00:51.440 --> 00:59.440 team. To be anonymous. I never said I prefer to be anonymous. I said I prefer to be an enigma. 00:59.440 --> 01:05.360 Oh, yeah, right. I'm sorry. I can't believe it. Hi. And thank you so much for joining me for 01:05.360 --> 01:12.720 today's podcast. So I have prepared something very special. Okay. I want to bring free software 01:12.720 --> 01:20.640 terms out there and to explain them a bit more to other people and yeah, to just spread the 01:20.640 --> 01:25.520 word about free software and also to make it easier for others to learn about free software. 01:26.560 --> 01:32.000 So to give them the basic introduction to free software, I have a back here. I love 01:32.000 --> 01:38.640 the Christmas back with a lot of free software terms in it. Some are more related to free software 01:38.640 --> 01:47.440 than others, but they all have something to do with free software and computers and all that 01:47.440 --> 01:55.040 stuff around us. So you all have to take one of them. You have to describe it to the others 01:55.040 --> 02:02.960 and the others then have to guess what it says. All right. Okay. So we make it a bit more fun to 02:02.960 --> 02:10.400 explain free software and yeah, that we also have some fun ourselves. I will just start if 02:10.400 --> 02:16.960 that's okay for you. So yeah. I'm nervous because I'm not sure which one I will pick. I can't 02:16.960 --> 02:22.240 I wrote some of them, but not all of them. So you need to wrestle a little bit more so that 02:22.240 --> 02:27.600 the viewers can hear that you're picking something a lot of them in there. And what of our listeners 02:27.600 --> 02:35.040 also don't don't see is that the small bag is very much matching with Bonnie's jumper. 02:35.760 --> 02:43.440 So it's very Christmas. I love Christmas. I can't tell you how much I love Christmas, 02:44.000 --> 02:50.560 but now to my free software term that I have, it's a set of tools that we all daily use 02:50.560 --> 02:57.520 on our daily life that we use on our computers. There are a whole bunch of different software 02:57.520 --> 03:06.160 projects under this term. Operating systems? No, and it's more about like we also have to mask 03:06.160 --> 03:20.080 card. So the news software projects. Yes. Okay. Well, then I think it started in the 80s, right? 03:21.040 --> 03:28.720 Yes. 1983. We celebrated 40 years of Knu this year. Oh my gosh. What does Knu stand for? 03:29.280 --> 03:38.240 That stands for Knu is not Unix. It's a recursive acronym and that's something that hackers like. 03:39.600 --> 03:47.440 So and a lot of people don't get that, but a lot of other people they find it very fun. And then 03:47.680 --> 03:54.560 they like to combine those acronyms, right? So GIMP is then the Knu image manipulation program. 03:55.200 --> 03:59.920 And so you get a whole family tree of acronyms out of it. 04:00.960 --> 04:06.720 This I knew gets often one of the biggest problems how to name your project and the rest of 04:06.720 --> 04:11.200 then is then just implementation, but this part is a really hard part of a project. 04:12.160 --> 04:26.240 All right. To be as it's your turn. All right. So to get all those nice tools running on the one hand, 04:26.240 --> 04:37.440 we have the free source code. Yes, we leave a compiler to translate it the source code into the 04:37.440 --> 04:45.520 binary file that is then run on our beloved computers. Yeah. Well, you need to wrestle it louder. 04:50.320 --> 04:51.600 Okay. Let me see. 04:56.080 --> 05:04.560 Okay. So if someone wrote a nice piece of free software and other people 05:04.720 --> 05:11.120 are proposing changes to this, they usually put a request. 05:13.200 --> 05:21.440 That's it. That's it. So they open a pull request and say, hi, here's a patch and you can apply this 05:21.440 --> 05:26.400 and then it's getting reviewed and reviewed again and then it's closed or merged. 05:27.120 --> 05:33.360 So and how do we check that you didn't know which ones are in there? 05:34.080 --> 05:40.080 Yeah, because Bonnie wrote all the over party terms in there. Do you honestly believe that I 05:40.080 --> 05:45.440 could give them in my head? Well, I also noticed that you know, each of the cards are like 05:45.440 --> 05:51.040 different size and different shapes. This is how you identify them from the back. Yeah, sure. 05:51.600 --> 06:03.040 Okay. Okay. I'm picking one. Okay. Oh, this one has a do not say a word on the card. 06:03.760 --> 06:07.840 Then you're not so. Yeah. Oh, this is this is tricky. 06:09.600 --> 06:12.080 Those are the advanced ones for the senior staff. 06:12.560 --> 06:25.760 When you have, when you want to give people permission to use your source code that you have 06:25.760 --> 06:36.240 copyright over, you use exactly. And when two of these conflict with each other or they do not 06:36.240 --> 06:42.800 conflict with each other, this is a concept called license incompatibility. Well, it's license 06:42.800 --> 06:49.920 compatibility here, but I'm going to say that that is also correct. Yeah. Not the way how I'll pronounce 06:49.920 --> 06:58.000 this, but yes. For the license compatibility. Is there a license that's really easy to use? 06:58.000 --> 07:02.480 It's like that's really compatible with a lot of projects or is there also license that's not 07:02.480 --> 07:10.160 compatible at all. If you stop for license. Yeah. I mean, this is a tricky question because there's 07:10.160 --> 07:16.800 like inbound and outbound compatibility. But I mean, it's if you take something like a very 07:16.800 --> 07:22.800 permissive license like the MIT license, then you know, anybody can do whatever they want with it. 07:22.800 --> 07:30.000 And generally, if something is licensed and the MIT license, then you know, because it's so 07:30.080 --> 07:36.080 permissive. I think there's there's a little bit of a problem with your question, though, 07:36.080 --> 07:42.960 because like I wouldn't come wouldn't say like one license is totally the most compatible license 07:42.960 --> 07:49.680 because there's no such thing. You know, you should think of compatibility as the ability to abide 07:49.680 --> 07:58.640 by all the requirements in a license while still using another license. If that makes sense. 07:58.640 --> 08:05.200 Yeah. Yeah. How compatible a license is depends on which two licenses you're talking about, 08:05.200 --> 08:09.680 rather than just saying like one license is super compatible with everything. So you need to you 08:09.680 --> 08:13.520 need to think about which two licenses you're talking about. So it's a case. It's a case by case 08:13.520 --> 08:20.160 basis. As a lawyer, it's always it depends. It can become a little bit more tricky when 08:21.120 --> 08:27.600 it's about copy left licenses. So if you have two licenses that both say, well, if you want to make 08:27.600 --> 08:34.800 modifications to this, it has to you have to again, then put it under this license. And that's 08:34.800 --> 08:40.480 what both licenses say. That's of course trickier than if one of those licenses says, well, 08:40.480 --> 08:45.680 you don't have to put it under the same license again. Well, speaking of that, I mean, since it's 08:45.680 --> 08:51.200 Christmas, you know, and we are inviting a lot of people over for dinner. I really like this 08:51.200 --> 08:56.960 example by Heather Mika, where she talks about license compatibility as kind of like hosting a 08:56.960 --> 09:03.200 dinner party for a lot of like guests with different types of like dietary requirements. 09:03.760 --> 09:10.320 So like if if someone is a vegan and refuses to eat anything or refuses to participate at the 09:10.320 --> 09:15.040 dinner, where if there is meat at the table, and then there is someone who says, like, I refuse 09:15.040 --> 09:22.640 to eat if there's a vegan at the table, then you can invite these two people to the same party, 09:22.640 --> 09:30.560 exactly. So if there you have a license that says like, I am, yeah, I think you can invite them 09:30.560 --> 09:35.680 both to the party, but they cannot eat at the table. Sure, sure. Yeah, you cannot invite them if 09:35.680 --> 09:41.040 you want there to be peace. But yeah, exactly right. They cannot eat at the table together. 09:41.040 --> 09:48.160 All right. Jeff, a prominent example where license compatibility fossil huge problem. 09:48.160 --> 09:55.920 I swear Gabriel doesn't my last question about this and I'm sorry to throw them all at you. 09:56.640 --> 10:03.040 No, I need to think about this. I mean, I think the the the the very standard one is just like 10:03.040 --> 10:07.040 Matthias said, a copy of life license with a permissive license because a copy of life license 10:07.040 --> 10:14.240 requires you to license any derivative or redistribute a copies under the same license terms, 10:14.240 --> 10:18.000 whereas the permissive license is that, you know, yeah, you can do whatever you want with the 10:18.000 --> 10:24.400 derivatives. So, you know, there is a bit of a conflict there. There have been some examples of 10:25.840 --> 10:33.840 with the UPL that they included one part in there that it's easier to also use this code than 10:33.840 --> 10:42.480 under GPL because else you cannot bring code from UPL and GPL together under certain circumstances. 10:42.480 --> 10:50.160 So they introduced a compatibility clause in there that you can go from UPL to GPL. 10:51.040 --> 10:57.040 Don't remember the exact versions, but I mean, I think for the podcast that's you can then go to 10:57.760 --> 11:03.840 to this other license and publish it under the other license so that there is the way of 11:04.800 --> 11:13.520 mixing code or mixing code in the end of project. All right. I'm going to move on now from 11:13.520 --> 11:21.280 license compatible compatibility. I don't know what he has started it now. It's stuck. 11:22.080 --> 11:29.440 He said this should be funny. And I will take one. I'm not supposed to look. 11:30.800 --> 11:38.720 Okay. There's new plus linux out there, but there are also other free operating systems. 11:39.600 --> 11:53.120 Yes, one of them. One of them. Yeah. Yes, free. Yes, free. Yes, it is. 11:56.480 --> 12:00.880 Thought you just used that to promote nicks or as a little bit more. No, next slide is a 12:00.960 --> 12:09.360 line of space. It is. And one of our consortium partners in NGI. Really? 12:10.800 --> 12:15.200 I didn't know that. Do you know that I just like to ask her quite a time. Oh, okay. 12:16.480 --> 12:22.800 Cool. Thank you. And we won't mention why the podcast. 12:22.800 --> 12:32.560 No, no, no, it has nothing to anyway. Now it's to be as a stern. 12:37.680 --> 12:43.840 He was looking at me like, that's what really mean. Yeah, I'm just thinking about the term. 12:44.800 --> 12:52.880 And if I get that correct, which I think I don't get correct, but so beside of free BSD and 12:52.880 --> 13:02.000 other BSD, there is a huge umbrella of other operations, operations systems as well. And 13:05.040 --> 13:12.320 this one is kind of special, I think. Oh, do you have to templow as card? 13:12.640 --> 13:18.320 Yes. So so now you can just try why that one is special because I was. 13:20.000 --> 13:29.040 I think I looked at it once and it was kind of interesting, but I never got into into actually 13:29.040 --> 13:36.080 installing and trying it out. I have never used the reader. I'm not planning to do it. 13:36.720 --> 13:38.960 Temple OS. At least you got it. 13:43.680 --> 13:44.560 Okay, well, then I. 13:46.320 --> 13:48.400 According to Gabriel, we have to do the sound. 13:52.320 --> 13:58.400 Oh, that's an easy one for me. I published the book 13:59.360 --> 14:06.240 and the door's conditions. Creative comments. Yeah. You're right. 14:07.360 --> 14:14.640 And what is creative comments? Creative comments is a set of licenses for 14:15.840 --> 14:21.360 mainly non-software pieces. I mean, it's also sometimes used for for software, but creative 14:21.360 --> 14:25.200 comments says about most of their licenses. You shouldn't use it for a software. 14:25.360 --> 14:32.800 And so there are some components there. What you what you can add to your license. The 14:32.800 --> 14:40.400 general one is that it says you can distribute it to others and share it with others. You can then 14:42.000 --> 14:49.200 can then add or the the clause is added that the name of the author or creator of the work should 14:49.440 --> 14:57.200 be named. So that's the by edition creative comments by then there is one about a copy left effect 14:57.200 --> 15:03.040 so that if you make modifications to the work or if you do if you further distribute it, it has 15:03.040 --> 15:09.280 to be under the same license. That's the share like option. Then there are two other options, 15:09.280 --> 15:16.080 which one of them is non-derivative so that you are not allowed to make any modifications to the 15:17.040 --> 15:24.400 work. And the other is non-commercial so that you can do all of that by just if it's 15:24.400 --> 15:30.560 non-commercial or so there were there were long debates about what is commercial and non-commercial 15:30.560 --> 15:36.800 in this. And so a lot of organization rather encouraged not to use a non-commercial 15:37.920 --> 15:41.440 FSFE being one of them. Yeah, it's interesting because you know, 15:42.240 --> 15:49.520 creative comments the the goal of the licenses is to explicitly to cover the areas that are 15:50.720 --> 15:57.680 where people want to share stuff. And in the in the area between everything being copyrighted 15:57.680 --> 16:02.400 and everything being in the public domain. So there's a there's a there's a range in between 16:02.400 --> 16:09.120 there that the creative comments licenses want to cover. But with the non-commercial licenses, 16:09.120 --> 16:14.800 I mean it's the same it's the situation unlike free software licenses because if you have a 16:14.800 --> 16:19.440 non-commercial clause in a free software license or in a license then that makes it non-free. 16:19.440 --> 16:25.200 So it's interesting to me I guess because the creative comments licenses are not meant for 16:25.200 --> 16:31.760 software or not intended for software that you know, they have these exceptions that are 16:32.320 --> 16:37.440 that don't straddle or that don't overlap with what the free software licenses are trying to 16:37.440 --> 16:44.080 accomplish. Yeah. So and the non-commercial license there's also sometimes used by 16:44.960 --> 16:50.800 people who say, well, yeah, it is free software. And then if you look deeper, then you might find 16:50.800 --> 16:58.400 some pieces in there that are under CC by non-commercial. And yeah, then it's a proprietary software 16:58.400 --> 17:05.280 with this part in there. So that's one piece there. The other thing about creative comments that's also 17:05.680 --> 17:14.880 worth noting is that it was founded by Lawrence Lessig. And Lawrence Lessig was beside that 17:14.880 --> 17:21.520 also the author of from my perspective, a very important book. It's called Code and other 17:21.520 --> 17:28.080 laws of cyberspace. And I mean at least for me that was one of the most influential books I read 17:28.560 --> 17:36.240 where it's explained how people are regulated and how people are influenced by markets, by social 17:36.240 --> 17:44.400 norms, by laws, and by architecture where code is one part of that. And I think that's if you 17:44.400 --> 17:49.520 haven't read it yet, I would highly recommend to read this book. I will link it in the show notes. 17:50.160 --> 17:56.240 Thank you. All right, your turn. 17:58.800 --> 18:06.560 Ah, okay. Well, I mean, we've already talked about this a little bit. I would just say MIT. 18:07.680 --> 18:14.080 Permissive license. It's very good. The answer on this card is permissive license. And the MIT 18:14.080 --> 18:20.480 is, it's a lot of people understand it to be a permissive license by FSFE. We understand the term, 18:20.480 --> 18:26.720 or we prefer to use the term non-reciprocal license because I mean, we prefer the terms reciprocal 18:26.720 --> 18:35.520 license as well to describe copy-left licenses because it's more descriptive and of what they 18:35.520 --> 18:40.560 accomplish. You have to reciprocate with the license terms when you create a derivative or when you 18:40.560 --> 18:46.080 distribute a copy. And for permissive license, I mean, the descriptive term is non-reciprocal license 18:46.080 --> 18:50.560 because you don't have to reciprocate the terms on any derivatives or distribute a copies. 18:51.520 --> 18:56.240 Does that make sense? No. Can I explain it again? 18:56.240 --> 19:01.040 So I mean, when you reciprocate, like, when someone does something, you do something back for them, 19:01.040 --> 19:07.840 right? So if someone shares with you a piece of code under certain terms and then you reciprocate 19:07.840 --> 19:13.280 by sharing it with others under the same terms. So that's a reciprocal kind of relationship. 19:13.280 --> 19:18.800 And when the license requires you to reciprocate, then we call their reciprocal license. And generally, 19:18.800 --> 19:23.600 there's also, there's a copy-left license, you know, you get it and then you reciprocate the 19:23.600 --> 19:29.120 license terms to any derivatives or distributed copies. And when you have a non-reciprocal license, 19:29.120 --> 19:37.760 like the MIT license, the copyright holder grants you the rights to use the source code or the 19:37.760 --> 19:43.360 program under certain terms, but you don't have to reciprocate the terms. So under non-reciprocal 19:43.440 --> 19:49.440 license or a permissive license, this is written on the card. Yeah, you can do whatever you want. 19:49.440 --> 19:53.040 Yeah, you can do whatever you want. You can make a derivative. 19:55.520 --> 20:01.840 I think it's a little bit careful about that you can do whatever you want. I just recently had 20:01.840 --> 20:09.280 a call with a company and they were very upset because they found out what obligations they have 20:09.440 --> 20:15.920 with some of those licenses and they got some emails from people about what they haven't done 20:15.920 --> 20:21.680 on their website with naming all the projects there and paying attribution there. So, sure, 20:21.680 --> 20:26.320 maybe I'm being a bad lawyer when I say do whatever you want because whenever I say do whatever 20:26.320 --> 20:32.000 you want, I'm thinking of in terms of licensing terms. I do whatever you want in terms of 20:32.000 --> 20:38.640 re-licensing derivatives and stuff like that. So one drawback about non-reciprocal slash permissive 20:38.640 --> 20:44.480 licenses is that they can turn up derivatives of them can end up being proprietary software. 20:44.480 --> 20:49.600 So, yeah, we're talking about license terms. I mean, the license itself requires you to have 20:50.240 --> 20:53.920 different fields and obligations. All right, I haven't paused it on yet. 20:58.320 --> 21:10.160 Okay, we already covered it before that why we wouldn't recommend that in some of those 21:10.400 --> 21:20.400 in some areas that where you can decide what rights people should get and which they shouldn't get. 21:23.840 --> 21:30.400 No clue. So, okay, then maybe you already forgot about that. Our listeners might remember it, 21:30.400 --> 21:37.200 but okay, when you want to allow people to do something, you do that in a license. 21:37.280 --> 21:46.560 Good, so that's the second part. Now, the first part is about, okay, it's actually it's easier 21:46.560 --> 21:54.800 with the new, so if you make money, the non-commercial or commercial licenses. Yeah, so the, 21:56.480 --> 22:01.360 you don't want to make money with, you don't want to allow that people can make money with it. 22:01.360 --> 22:05.440 So, the non-commercial license, yeah, so it was written non-commercial license here. 22:08.160 --> 22:11.360 Well, I thought I can do a shortcut. 22:19.680 --> 22:27.600 I mean, one sec. Could you also, before we move on to the next card, okay? Could you also quickly say 22:28.000 --> 22:35.680 what is commercial? Like, is commercial if I start selling it, is commercial if I get donations? 22:36.880 --> 22:44.080 That's exactly the problem. So, it's not a very easy thing and people should not kind of use it lightly. 22:44.080 --> 22:50.240 I mean, as we've already covered before with the creative comments licenses, it is something where 22:50.240 --> 22:59.440 there's a lot of debate about it, what is covered and what is not covered. And so, in a lot of cases, 22:59.440 --> 23:09.360 the license does not achieve the goal the people had before, while adding a lot of barriers for 23:09.360 --> 23:15.200 people whom they would have liked to benefit from the license. So, if you are very cautious, 23:15.920 --> 23:22.320 then you don't use it because it could be a border case, for example, in the FSFE, 23:22.320 --> 23:29.280 while we could put it maybe on a sticker if we don't sell it and just give it out, 23:29.280 --> 23:35.600 but if we use the same thing on a t-shirt that might be considered commercial, on the other hand, 23:35.600 --> 23:44.800 we are non-profit. So, ah, yeah, not sure. So, we rather not use it. And for others who don't 23:44.800 --> 23:51.840 care that much about the license, you just do it because the enforcement there might be pretty low. 23:51.840 --> 24:00.480 And, yeah, so, it's a bit, for me, one of those licenses where you're preventing something, 24:01.680 --> 24:07.600 or you're trying to prevent something, and by trying to do that, you prevent a lot of good things 24:08.160 --> 24:13.280 you don't want to prevent. A little bit like it, we also had the discussions about 24:14.720 --> 24:20.560 anti-military clauses and licenses, which are also very, very difficult to 24:22.000 --> 24:27.920 clarify what exactly it means, to enforce, and thereby preventing a lot of people from 24:28.480 --> 24:34.160 using the software for great things, which are good for humanity. 24:34.320 --> 24:45.520 All right, thanks, human tears. Okay, I'm going to pick one. Oh, I have to say I did not write all of 24:45.520 --> 24:51.200 them because I also wanted to have some surprises, and then it doesn't spawn off them. It's quite hard for me. 24:55.440 --> 25:03.440 So, it's kind of like you can do mathematical scripts with this language, and it's very commonly 25:03.520 --> 25:08.560 used fun. Pison are. No, no, no, a bit different. It's like you can also 25:09.760 --> 25:16.480 design graphs with it, and it's like people using a lot and do also write papers with it, 25:16.480 --> 25:20.560 if they are really interested, some of three sufferners are really, really interested, 25:21.440 --> 25:30.640 and they just love this type of language to do, to not calculate, but to write scripts with, 25:30.640 --> 25:39.760 for example. Okay, no, not as good running, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Okay, 25:39.760 --> 25:46.320 the other one I know, which is famous for calculations is Fortran, but I don't guess it's not 25:46.320 --> 25:53.120 calculating. It's not about calculating. It's more about like you can write form you lost with it, 25:53.200 --> 26:00.640 for example, late hack. Yes. Okay, okay, I wouldn't have thought about that at the beginning, 26:00.640 --> 26:11.120 but yeah. Okay, yes, it's already smiling. Yeah, I'm processing the information on the card. 26:11.760 --> 26:24.320 So we have for computers, we have many distributions of operator systems, and for smartphones, 26:25.360 --> 26:34.320 we have them as well, but in a different form and under ROMs, yes, that is the ROM with the 26:34.400 --> 26:44.880 second part of the labes. Yes, custom ROMs. And they can be used to free your phone. 26:44.880 --> 26:51.280 They can be used to free your phone under some circumstances. Yes, so custom ROMs usually 26:51.280 --> 27:01.360 don't support just every phone you might have in your pocket, but they have a list of 27:02.320 --> 27:08.640 phone models that they support, and then you can use custom ROMs to, if the custom ROM 27:08.640 --> 27:14.400 is free software, then you can use the custom ROM to free your phone, basically, yeah. 27:14.400 --> 27:20.720 So many years ago, we started helping people with flashing those custom ROMs on their phones 27:20.720 --> 27:27.440 in our free your Android workshops. And now recently, we had the upcycling Android campaign, 27:27.440 --> 27:35.680 and there we also organized workshops where people can flash free software ROMs on their phones, 27:36.240 --> 27:40.960 and we also had some devices with us there, so people are not lose a little bit the 27:42.880 --> 27:50.800 fear of the contact. Yeah, the fear to modify their expensive device, which is very important 27:50.800 --> 27:56.000 for a lot of people, because a lot of the tasks that the daily tasks are done with the device, 27:56.000 --> 28:00.560 so we also had some devices that were with us where you can test it, and you could install 28:00.560 --> 28:08.400 a replicant, which is an Android ROM that is focusing a lot on being completely free software, 28:08.400 --> 28:15.120 and we also have people with colleagues who ask, which is more like focusing on privacy, 28:16.960 --> 28:24.480 and then also postmarker to ask, which is not an Android, but Knollinox version, then, 28:24.560 --> 28:30.080 to install on operating systems, so we help with those, and also when people 28:30.080 --> 28:34.640 requested some others, we also showed that to them, so that they could try that out. 28:36.480 --> 28:43.040 Awesome. And on the upcycling Android page, we have a list of different custom ROMs, 28:43.040 --> 28:48.560 right, where they can also read a bit more about the custom ROMs, and also find out which one 28:48.560 --> 28:53.200 is more suitable for them, and which one they are interested in. 28:53.200 --> 29:01.520 Yes, we have a list of Android alternatives, because all the custom ROMs I know of are basically 29:01.520 --> 29:08.400 meant for Android phones to be an alternative operation system, and on our website, 29:08.400 --> 29:14.240 we have a collection of nice information on the different ROMs. 29:14.320 --> 29:21.600 Also linked in the show notes. But also like postmarker to ask for other Knollinox operating 29:21.600 --> 29:26.160 systems you can flash there. They are also mentioned there, and we also have video, 29:26.960 --> 29:33.040 some video examples where you can have a look at how this is flashed, also covering from 29:33.040 --> 29:38.320 replicant to colleagues who ask to postmarker to ask, and I mean, they are there also other 29:38.320 --> 29:44.080 operating systems out there that you can use on mobile phones that are out there. 29:44.480 --> 29:49.280 But for those, we want to pick some examples to explain this better, 29:49.840 --> 29:57.920 and why that also helps you to use your phone for a longer time, and thereby be more sustainable. 29:59.760 --> 30:02.400 All right, thank you, and you turn. 30:02.640 --> 30:07.600 Oh, okay. 30:12.720 --> 30:18.720 Well, if you want to buy a train ticket, you go to buy it. 30:20.320 --> 30:20.960 Website? 30:20.960 --> 30:28.720 It's on the platforms, and there are those booth machines, not a word for those machines. 30:28.720 --> 30:30.080 How do you call those machines? 30:32.560 --> 30:33.360 Dispenser? 30:36.320 --> 30:43.120 Okay, and I'll do it the other way. I was using a matte male client before, and the 30:43.120 --> 30:47.360 dead was running in the terminal. Yes, okay. Thank you. 30:50.000 --> 30:51.600 No, I have it. Okay, I get it. 30:51.600 --> 30:58.640 Can you explain very quickly what is a terminal used for how like there are a lot of 30:58.640 --> 31:02.880 terminologies around terminal? I mean, you can buy train tickets. 31:04.240 --> 31:06.960 I just learned you can buy train tickets with them. 31:14.560 --> 31:21.680 Terminals most often refer in the surrounding of new Linux systems to 31:21.840 --> 31:31.760 a program that you can use to interact with your computer, not on a graphical interface level, 31:31.760 --> 31:37.120 where you click on an icon, and then the program starts, but on a textural level. 31:37.120 --> 31:44.880 So you type in some commands, and then those commands are executed, and you get a 31:45.120 --> 31:50.000 different way to interact with the computer. 31:51.280 --> 31:58.480 So it's a way for you to, for example, run commands, and say find me this file. 31:59.200 --> 32:03.520 Yes, or find out this, let me see what's in this file. 32:04.160 --> 32:10.160 Yes, or what's in the directory, or also to copy files from one computer to another 32:10.160 --> 32:15.840 computer, or log into a computer somewhere connected via the internet. 32:17.280 --> 32:24.880 All right. I mean, one thing I like about it is often that at the beginning, 32:24.880 --> 32:31.680 it for beginners, it looks a little bit like not being intuitive or being complicated, 32:31.680 --> 32:38.080 but on the other hand, if you once understand the concepts of it, and what you can do on the terminal, 32:38.160 --> 32:42.800 and how you can connect different programs with each other to accomplish your tasks, 32:42.800 --> 32:51.200 it is also something that is very good to understand and quite intuitive there, while for other 32:51.200 --> 32:58.080 programs, it can be quite difficult to find the right options or the right menu to accomplish 32:58.080 --> 33:04.960 something. So yeah, that's one of the things, which I still think that for depending on what 33:04.960 --> 33:11.440 users you have, that's a very intuitive way of communicating with the computer, and I think 33:11.440 --> 33:18.480 it's also something that helps you to understand how better understand how computers work. 33:21.680 --> 33:26.960 No, I can't totally agree. I have nothing more to add. No questions to all. 33:28.960 --> 33:30.320 All right, you turn. 33:30.480 --> 33:39.040 Okay, this is in my wheelhouse, I guess. 33:41.440 --> 33:50.160 Okay, so when you have a software project, and you have a lot of people, 33:51.440 --> 33:57.280 a free software project, and you have a lot of people who want to submit pull requests, 33:57.840 --> 34:08.960 what is a way to control, oh gosh, and control system. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. What is a legal 34:08.960 --> 34:21.040 instrument that you can use to control or manage what they are giving to your software project? 34:21.680 --> 34:24.880 Contributor license agreement? Exactly. Yes. 34:28.240 --> 34:36.960 But if we now want to go into that subject, then the podcast, it's quite a complicated subject, 34:36.960 --> 34:43.520 right? It is. Yeah. Can you really briefly give us an overview about what makes it so complicated 34:43.520 --> 34:50.880 without going into a lot of detail? I mean, I think the, what makes it so complicated 34:50.880 --> 34:58.560 is that whenever you draft, whenever anybody drafts an agreement, it's always about what terms 34:58.560 --> 35:03.600 you want to put in, and different people have different needs regardless of whether it's a software 35:03.600 --> 35:07.760 project or whatever kind of agreement, but let's say in the context of a software project, 35:07.760 --> 35:11.920 different people have different needs, different people want to retain different types of control, 35:11.920 --> 35:19.440 and it becomes whenever you're drafting agreement, the complexity arises because of people 35:19.440 --> 35:25.360 and what they want out of the relationship that they have, right? So I'm just going to leave it at 35:25.360 --> 35:31.280 that and say that, you know, if you're contributing and you're trying to put a pull request, 35:31.280 --> 35:36.240 you might have different interpretations of what you want to get out of that, and then the 35:37.520 --> 35:40.640 project runner will also have different interpretations of what they want to get out of your 35:40.640 --> 35:46.000 contribution and your pull request. So that's where all the complexities arise and I will 35:46.000 --> 35:52.480 leave it at that. All right. Thank you so much. I now have a final question for all of you. 35:53.440 --> 36:01.360 It's a bit of a surprise. You know that every year, every year on the 14th of February, 36:01.360 --> 36:08.320 we celebrate our free software. Yes, and I really like to say because it helps us to reach out to 36:08.320 --> 36:14.240 all those people contributing to free software in different ways, not only by code, but also by 36:14.240 --> 36:22.960 track translation or by opening an issue and reporting a bug or even fixing this bug. Say, 36:22.960 --> 36:30.480 a lot of ways to contribute. And it's very nice to reach out to those people who are behind 36:31.840 --> 36:37.360 those free software projects that we use and say thank you because this really helps to motivate 36:37.360 --> 36:43.680 them. This helps to create a lovely and friendly community. And I would now like to ask you, 36:43.680 --> 36:47.760 if you have a free software project that you would like to say thank you to. 36:49.360 --> 36:57.360 Yes, I will go with to be a first. To be a free software project that you would really like to say 36:57.360 --> 37:10.400 thank you to. It's not a it's not one project. I would like to say thank you to but it's a bunch of 37:10.400 --> 37:22.000 projects that are running under the terms of the Fediverse, contributing to a large decentralized 37:22.000 --> 37:31.440 social networking sphere in the internet that people can join and use free software projects or 37:31.680 --> 37:41.440 mostly free software projects to do social media. So micro blogging or sharing images or 37:41.440 --> 37:55.840 sharing podcasts or stuff like that without being drawn into a wallet garden system of social media 37:55.920 --> 38:01.440 platforms. Thank you. Matthias, is there a free software project that you would like to say thank you 38:01.440 --> 38:10.160 to. Yeah, many. That's always a problem and that's maybe also a nice thing for the I love free 38:10.160 --> 38:18.000 software day at least in the Berlin group we use to have that big round of every people can say 38:18.320 --> 38:28.640 present their loved software project and we always find projects that nobody else has so far heard of 38:28.640 --> 38:39.520 and yeah, that's that's true. It's very good tradition we have there. So but I would still like to 38:39.520 --> 38:44.400 thank some people because I say I love the software day it's not just about thinking like one 38:44.400 --> 38:52.880 project but you can also thank some contributors and I would like to thank all the contributors 38:52.880 --> 39:03.280 out there who are contributing to email software. I think nowadays a lot of people don't value 39:03.280 --> 39:09.920 email as much as they should maybe from how significant it is and I also think that for 39:10.640 --> 39:17.520 quite a time people did not spend that much work on further improving email and making it really 39:17.520 --> 39:23.920 usable for private users but also for for professional users and I'm very happy about those 39:23.920 --> 39:32.480 people who work hard on improving email client software on there for for the for their laptops 39:32.480 --> 39:40.320 or mobile phones but also server software where I think when yeah when more efforts are done you 39:40.320 --> 39:48.400 can really heavily still improve this very reliable system we which was created there and I'm 39:48.400 --> 39:57.360 very happy that at that at I foster them there is this year there is in 2024 now a track about 39:57.360 --> 40:03.520 modern email and so that's something where I would like to to thank all of the people out there 40:03.520 --> 40:10.320 writing good email clients good email server software good tools around email that make it easier 40:10.320 --> 40:18.640 for people to communicate by that with everyone around the world. Thank you. Now Gabriel same question 40:18.640 --> 40:25.200 is there a free software project that you would like to say thank you to. That's tricky. I again I 40:25.200 --> 40:32.800 won't limit myself to one project but as someone who is as terminally online as I am and who 40:33.360 --> 40:40.480 works with a next-generation internet project from the European Commission that seeks to reverse 40:40.480 --> 40:48.480 the end-shedification of the internet as a platform. Yeah I would like to thank all the developers 40:48.480 --> 40:57.280 who are working on like alternatives for internet infrastructure whether it be things like Firefox 40:57.280 --> 41:03.760 you know browsers that you know respect your privacy or just extensions like ad blockers or 41:04.400 --> 41:10.400 things that language apps that that make the internet more accessible to like people around 41:10.400 --> 41:17.840 the world or accessibility features for disabled people blind people for example to be able to 41:17.840 --> 41:26.240 access the internet more readily. Yeah so there's a lot of free software developers involved in 41:26.240 --> 41:32.880 building a better internet to connect everybody and yeah I am very grateful for their work and 41:33.920 --> 41:42.800 all right and Bonnie. No I'm not doing that because I can't take up just one project. Yes it's 41:42.880 --> 41:53.360 reciprocal. Oh gosh okay. There's a contributor to the FSFE that I'm really grateful for and to 41:53.360 --> 42:00.560 also manage just the PETube instance for example I'm appending and to have me out quite a lot with 42:00.560 --> 42:06.640 my free software project ideas because I'm not the best code at all and then yeah I'm really 42:06.640 --> 42:12.800 grateful that he does a lot of work with PETube it takes him hours to update the software but it's 42:12.800 --> 42:19.200 a really great software. I'm not saying anything against PETube. And when Alvar came up you 42:19.200 --> 42:26.160 didn't you cannot see that but Tobias as one of the people from our system team was also starting to 42:26.160 --> 42:34.720 not directly here. I think we can all agree that we would like to thank Alvar. So that's my 42:34.800 --> 42:42.640 ending phrase and now I have done a lot of things. All right I also want to thank you guys. 42:43.280 --> 42:48.240 Thank you for being here today. Thank you for doing the podcast with me. It was a great pleasure 42:48.240 --> 42:54.640 and yeah I hope you all learned a bit more about free software and the terms around free software. 42:54.640 --> 43:02.800 I still have some in my bag. And now it's up to you as the listeners to decide if we should do 43:02.880 --> 43:08.640 this format again in future and if you want to stand in terms so that it's not Bonnie who can 43:08.640 --> 43:15.040 then cheat and know some of the things also she says that she doesn't remember all of them 43:15.040 --> 43:23.600 then we can put it on a fairground. All right thank you so much for listening to this software 43:23.600 --> 43:29.200 freedom podcast episode. This podcast is brought to you by the free software foundation Europe. 43:29.200 --> 43:32.720 If you liked this episode please recommend it to your friends and rate it. 43:33.600 --> 43:47.600 And I hope to meet you next time. Bye bye. Very Christmas.