Transcript of SFP#29: How South Tyrol is taking a step in the direction of software freedom
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WEBVTT 00:00.000 --> 00:04.640 Before we start with the podcast, we would like to say thank you to all of you who support 00:04.640 --> 00:07.740 the FSFE's work of money. 00:07.740 --> 00:12.760 Working for software freedom and producing podcasts costs money. 00:12.760 --> 00:18.200 Please consider supporting us with our nation on the FSFE.org slash donate and in the 00:18.200 --> 00:19.200 show notes. 00:30.000 --> 00:37.440 Hello and welcome to the software freedom podcast. 00:37.440 --> 00:41.320 This podcast is brought to you by the free software foundation Europe. 00:41.320 --> 00:45.840 We are a charity that empowers users to take control of technology. 00:45.840 --> 00:49.640 I'm Bonnie Merring and today we have a special episode. 00:49.640 --> 00:55.840 Marta Andreoli, who is the Italian deputy coordinator, is talking to Paul Lundjili 00:55.840 --> 00:58.080 about the first project. 00:58.080 --> 01:03.520 And with this I would say let's explore what all the fuss is about. 01:03.520 --> 01:09.360 Hello everyone, my name is Marta and I'm the deputy coordinator for the FSFE Italy 01:09.360 --> 01:10.560 project. 01:10.560 --> 01:16.320 I'm here tonight together with Paul Lundjili, who is the technical inspector for Italian 01:16.320 --> 01:21.360 schools in the autonomy of Bozzano Italy. 01:21.360 --> 01:22.360 Welcome Paolo. 01:22.360 --> 01:23.360 Hi. 01:23.360 --> 01:24.360 Hi. 01:24.360 --> 01:25.360 Nice to see you, Marta. 01:25.760 --> 01:26.360 Good. 01:26.360 --> 01:30.680 I'm really happy that you're here with us tonight with me, actually. 01:30.680 --> 01:35.480 And Paolo is also the coordinator of the FUSE project. 01:35.480 --> 01:40.680 Paolo can you tell me and can you tell us a bit more about what the FUSE is all about? 01:40.680 --> 01:45.440 Yeah, FUSE stands for free upgrade in software schools. 01:45.440 --> 01:53.200 We modified a little bit the acronym into free upgrade for a digitally sustainable school. 01:53.200 --> 01:59.840 And this project was born in 2005 with the idea of giving students and teachers the 01:59.840 --> 02:05.360 possibility to use free software, not only at schools but also at home. 02:05.360 --> 02:07.200 Okay, that's amazing. 02:07.200 --> 02:08.200 Thank you Paolo. 02:08.200 --> 02:11.760 I'm really fond of this project, I'm a big fan. 02:11.760 --> 02:17.800 And I know that this project is also really very much considered a project of public value. 02:17.800 --> 02:23.480 And I also know that the project has some ties with the FUSE campaign, public money, 02:23.480 --> 02:24.880 public code. 02:24.880 --> 02:28.520 So I would love for you now to share a bit more on this. 02:28.520 --> 02:37.000 Yeah, several projects and institutions around the world recognized not only to our project, 02:37.000 --> 02:41.960 so to the FUSE project, but also to all free software projects around the world that 02:41.960 --> 02:47.040 they bring, they constitute public value and why? 02:47.040 --> 02:54.720 Because especially for projects that are, let's say, funded by public administrations, 02:54.720 --> 03:02.240 those, that money that is used to develop those projects is converted into public code. 03:02.240 --> 03:04.880 And this is what happened with FUSE. 03:04.880 --> 03:13.600 We not only reused a very good free software starting from the Debian GNU Linux distribution, 03:13.600 --> 03:20.280 but we also reused a lot of applications that constitute all the, let's say, educational 03:20.280 --> 03:24.800 applications that we installed in the FUSE distribution. 03:24.800 --> 03:33.520 We also developed a lot of code using public money and this is why it is considered that 03:33.520 --> 03:36.680 the outcome of this is a public value. 03:36.680 --> 03:42.880 So the public code, the documentation, and everything that comes out of the project 03:42.880 --> 03:47.280 is, let's say, given back to the whole community. 03:47.280 --> 03:53.280 Okay, wow, that's really amazing and it's really a complete target for what the FUSE stands 03:53.280 --> 03:57.080 for for the public money, public code campaign. 03:57.080 --> 04:01.400 Could you tell me then a bit more about who uses the project and do you also have some 04:01.400 --> 04:04.760 metrics in terms of numbers of users? 04:04.760 --> 04:13.200 Yes, the FUSE project is used by all Italian schools of the autonomous province of Bolzano. 04:13.200 --> 04:22.920 And so the numbers are that it is used by around 16,000 students and 1,900 teachers. 04:22.920 --> 04:29.880 It is used in 74 schools and the number of PCs and desktops and the notebooks we have 04:29.880 --> 04:39.720 is around 4,500 and we also have 64 servers which have a complete free software stack starting 04:39.720 --> 04:48.040 from Proxmox and ending it to Debian and all software that is needed to run a school 04:48.040 --> 04:49.040 network. 04:49.040 --> 04:50.440 Okay, amazing. 04:50.440 --> 04:56.880 I was once in a presentation with you and I remember that you told us and you shared 04:56.880 --> 05:02.920 that you were saving a lot of money because you actually used this project. 05:02.920 --> 05:08.440 So I was wondering if you perhaps remember now without having the data with you, how much 05:08.440 --> 05:16.080 money did this project make you save and by you, I mean the province of Bolzano? 05:16.080 --> 05:28.880 Yeah, consider that before 2005, we were spending around 300,000 euro for proprietary software 05:28.880 --> 05:30.720 licenses. 05:30.720 --> 05:42.280 Starting from 2005, okay, we spent some money to exit the proprietary lock-in and starting 05:42.280 --> 05:52.040 from 2007 till today practically, consider that in 16 years we spent less than what we 05:52.040 --> 05:55.880 spent for one year of proprietary software licenses. 05:55.880 --> 06:06.520 So in 16 years from 2007 till 2022, we spent around 303,000 euro which is less than one 06:06.520 --> 06:09.760 year of proprietary software licenses. 06:10.080 --> 06:15.840 Wow, that's really amazing, Paolo and big congratulations for that. 06:15.840 --> 06:21.040 And because of what you just shared, I have a question that I think the audience that 06:21.040 --> 06:26.720 is listening to us might be interested in hearing and especially they might be interested 06:26.720 --> 06:30.040 in hearing your answer to this question. 06:30.040 --> 06:35.400 And my question would be if someone wants to replicate this project, do you have a blueprint 06:35.400 --> 06:39.560 that you created through the years and can you share it with us? 06:39.560 --> 06:41.320 Would you be willing to share it with us? 06:41.320 --> 06:51.760 We were in contact with some other schools and people around Italy. 06:51.760 --> 06:56.680 So first of all, I would like to say that Fuss is not only used in South Tyrol, it's 06:56.680 --> 07:03.480 also used for example in one high school in Venice. 07:03.480 --> 07:06.640 It has been used for several years. 07:06.640 --> 07:14.880 It's used in Florence, in a so-called Lichero, Nicolò Rodolico in Florence and some other 07:14.880 --> 07:22.040 schools in Italy for example, Ancona. 07:22.040 --> 07:29.920 We were asked by Liguria for example to give them a blueprint to replicate a project and 07:29.920 --> 07:36.000 we work with them towards a document for replicating it. 07:36.000 --> 07:41.280 And the last effort was doing more or less the same thing with the schools in Venice. 07:41.280 --> 07:51.080 So we were contacted by the region of Venice and they asked us to give them some help in 07:51.080 --> 07:56.080 recreating the ingredients for replicating Fuss in the region. 07:56.080 --> 07:59.200 Okay, that's beautiful and did you already achieve this? 07:59.200 --> 08:00.200 Did you do it? 08:00.200 --> 08:03.480 They decided to start with the three schools. 08:03.480 --> 08:08.040 So they chose three schools and the schools are going to start with Fuss. 08:08.040 --> 08:12.480 Okay, so I'm looking forward to hear the results of what they will do as well. 08:12.480 --> 08:17.120 And I hope many listeners to our podcast will also decide to get in touch with you where 08:17.120 --> 08:20.960 we share the podcast, we will also share your contact if that's okay with you so that 08:20.960 --> 08:24.480 people can get in touch. 08:24.480 --> 08:30.400 But before closing, I also wanted to touch on another point because I've seen by reading 08:30.400 --> 08:35.960 newspaper articles and links that you also sent me and other friends shared that this 08:35.960 --> 08:42.520 project also can be called as a social project because you interacted with other realities 08:42.520 --> 08:44.600 from the territory. 08:44.600 --> 08:50.720 And I'm really also always fascinated by these kind of corporations. 08:50.720 --> 08:56.320 So I would really love if you can elaborate a bit more on these and share your experience. 08:56.320 --> 08:57.320 Sure. 08:57.320 --> 09:04.840 I mean, together with the local Linux user group, the Linux user group, Bozano-Bulsana, 09:04.840 --> 09:13.680 we started in 2017 and so called Open Linux Desk where people could come and we were 09:13.680 --> 09:20.360 helping them in installing Linux and free software on their machines. 09:20.360 --> 09:26.520 And starting with a pandemic period, we saw that it was a great, two big digital divide 09:26.520 --> 09:33.800 in families and we decided to gather a lot of used PCs and believe me, there are companies 09:33.800 --> 09:41.080 that throw away and also public institutions that throw away very good PCs and we decided 09:41.080 --> 09:47.520 to gather them and install GNU Linux and lots of free software, practically the FUSD 09:47.520 --> 09:54.600 distribution for students and consider that in three, four years we were able to give 09:54.600 --> 10:00.520 to families and students in particular 800 PCs. 10:00.520 --> 10:08.080 So following this idea, we were also able to get in contact with other projects, for 10:08.080 --> 10:15.800 example MiniBizet, which is a project that started several years ago in order to create 10:15.800 --> 10:24.280 a small city for children and there are several other projects in Europe of the same kind 10:24.280 --> 10:26.600 as the one here in Bozano. 10:26.600 --> 10:32.120 And in 2024, so this year, this was the first year where they wanted to digitalize the 10:32.120 --> 10:36.040 whole city and they needed around 80 PCs. 10:36.040 --> 10:42.200 And so what we proposed them was to start a circular economy project where we gathered 10:42.200 --> 10:48.920 all PCs as we did with the school swap project and we installed free software on that. 10:48.920 --> 10:55.000 So the same FUSD distribution, so they've been GNU Linux and a lot of educational software 10:55.000 --> 11:04.560 and they were able to let's say work in a small city using computers for the first time. 11:04.560 --> 11:07.560 Yes, and computers with free software installed on it. 11:07.560 --> 11:12.840 Of the amazing, amazing, really great work and thank you for sharing with us. 11:12.840 --> 11:15.920 I hope listeners will be inspired by your stories. 11:15.920 --> 11:19.360 That's the whole purpose of having this interview with you. 11:19.360 --> 11:25.080 And yeah, to wrap it up, we touched on so many points and especially I think so many 11:25.080 --> 11:29.520 important values came up from the talk that we just had. 11:29.520 --> 11:36.000 So to close our talk, I would like to ask you if you can give us a bit of a summary of 11:36.000 --> 11:42.960 the main pillars that actually build up this project and that are at the core of the project. 11:42.960 --> 11:49.600 I heard some of them, for example, we talk about free and open source software, about 11:49.600 --> 11:56.000 open standards, about open teaching materials, open access and I would also say open hardware. 11:56.080 --> 11:58.080 Of course, if you can. 11:58.080 --> 12:05.000 Yes, we are talking very often about the concept of digital sustainability. 12:05.000 --> 12:11.760 So sustainability is a concept that has been used a lot, especially in the past few years, 12:11.760 --> 12:17.480 but we insist on the fact that we don't have only to talk about free software, 12:17.480 --> 12:27.280 but also, as you said, about open standards, the importance of using open standards in schools, 12:27.280 --> 12:31.320 because I work in schools and for public administrations. 12:31.320 --> 12:38.320 And the importance of starting creating open teaching materials, there's a lot of work that 12:38.320 --> 12:45.440 has to be done, Wikimedia projects as Wikibooks are working in that direction. 12:45.440 --> 12:47.600 And also Vikiversity, for example. 12:47.600 --> 12:58.640 So we very often say we don't need to reinvent or reuse or say redevelop new platforms 12:58.640 --> 13:02.480 for storing their teaching materials, for example. 13:02.480 --> 13:10.160 And of course, open access is quite important as one of the several pillars of digital sustainability, 13:10.200 --> 13:17.240 because without open access, we couldn't access neither free software and all other resources. 13:17.240 --> 13:25.360 And these four pillars are, let's say, built one of the most important things that we also have, 13:25.360 --> 13:31.400 we need in schools, this is one of the big objects of schools, which is knowledge sharing. 13:31.400 --> 13:43.800 So without, I mean, this main point, which is knowledge sharing, we couldn't have the other four resources 13:43.800 --> 13:45.400 that we're talking about. 13:45.400 --> 13:53.120 Yeah, and knowledge sharing is also the point of our podcasts and of sharing these experiences with you all. 13:53.120 --> 13:56.720 So I thank you, Paolo, for the talk we had. 13:56.720 --> 14:01.000 It was a very inspiring chat, and I look forward to many more. 14:01.000 --> 14:08.160 And thank you also to all the listeners who tuned in for the podcast episode on the FUS project with Paolo Dunjili. 14:08.160 --> 14:11.880 And see you next time, stay tuned for the next guest. 14:11.880 --> 14:13.280 Bye-bye. 14:13.280 --> 14:15.920 This was the Software Freedom Podcast. 14:15.920 --> 14:20.760 If you liked this episode, please recommend it to your friends and rate it. 14:20.760 --> 14:26.960 Stay tuned for more inspiring conversations that explore the importance of Software Freedom. 14:26.960 --> 14:32.360 This podcast is presented to you by the free Software Foundation Europe. 14:32.360 --> 14:36.360 We are a charity that works in promoting Software Freedom. 14:36.360 --> 14:41.360 If you like our work, please consider supporting us with our donation. 14:41.360 --> 14:47.160 You find more information under fsfe.org slash donate. 14:47.160 --> 14:48.160 Thanks.