Transcript of SFP#31: Policy and EU: FOSDEM recap
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SFP#031: Policy and EU: FOSDEM recap
1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:07,000 Before we start after the podcast, we would like to say thank you to all of you who support the FSF East Work of Money. 2 00:00:07,000 --> 00:00:12,000 Working for software freedom and producing podcasts costs money. 3 00:00:12,000 --> 00:00:20,000 Please consider supporting us with the nation on the FSFE.org slash donate and in the show notes. 4 00:00:20,000 --> 00:00:26,000 Bringing these people together also takes time. 5 00:00:26,000 --> 00:00:29,000 It needs energy, finding, coming, crown. 6 00:00:29,000 --> 00:00:31,000 See where we can work together. 7 00:00:31,000 --> 00:00:33,000 This needs a lot of time. 8 00:00:33,000 --> 00:00:38,000 Resources and yeah, if you donate to us, you make this work possible. 9 00:00:38,000 --> 00:00:40,000 You make our fights for funding possible. 10 00:00:40,000 --> 00:00:44,000 And then also one day we benefit you. 11 00:00:44,000 --> 00:00:51,000 If you, for example, develop and maybe we get funds for your project in the future. 12 00:00:51,000 --> 00:01:09,000 Hello and welcome to the software freedom podcast. 13 00:01:09,000 --> 00:01:13,000 This podcast is presented to you by the Free Software Foundation Europe. 14 00:01:13,000 --> 00:01:17,000 We are a charity that empowered users to take control of technology. 15 00:01:17,000 --> 00:01:21,000 I'm body married and today I'm here with Alexander Sander. 16 00:01:21,000 --> 00:01:25,000 Alex is the senior policy consultant for the FSFE. 17 00:01:25,000 --> 00:01:30,000 And in his work for the FSFE, he monitors the current happenings in the European Union 18 00:01:30,000 --> 00:01:34,000 and also pushes for the recognition of the software. 19 00:01:34,000 --> 00:01:39,000 Yeah, today in this policy and EU episode, I don't know. 20 00:01:39,000 --> 00:01:42,000 I find this is a tongue breaker, trying to understand. 21 00:01:42,000 --> 00:01:43,000 They are called tanked. 22 00:01:43,000 --> 00:01:45,000 So you know what I mean? 23 00:01:45,000 --> 00:01:49,000 Alex and I will talk about our host and experience. 24 00:01:49,000 --> 00:01:54,000 And especially the outcome of the two DevRooms that were on the FSFE. 25 00:01:54,000 --> 00:01:56,000 Alex, thank you so much for making the time. 26 00:01:56,000 --> 00:02:01,000 Thank you so much for being here on our second try for the recording. 27 00:02:02,000 --> 00:02:04,000 Yeah, thanks for having me. 28 00:02:05,000 --> 00:02:09,000 Okay, so how was the two DevRooms? 29 00:02:09,000 --> 00:02:11,000 I remember they were not only run by the FSFE. 30 00:02:11,000 --> 00:02:13,000 There were others involved as well. 31 00:02:13,000 --> 00:02:17,000 So in the EU and policy DevRooms, who was involved again? 32 00:02:17,000 --> 00:02:26,000 So we partnering on two DevRooms, the legal and policy DevRooms that we are 33 00:02:27,000 --> 00:02:31,000 organizing together with other organizations like the Software Freedom Conservancy, 34 00:02:31,000 --> 00:02:38,000 Red Hat, Tom Marble, something we started to work on together doing the corona crisis, 35 00:02:38,000 --> 00:02:41,000 the DevRooms itself is longer than a decade. 36 00:02:41,000 --> 00:02:48,000 And it's very well established, DevRooms where we talk about SNS, legal and policy, 37 00:02:48,000 --> 00:02:50,000 related issues. 38 00:02:50,000 --> 00:02:56,000 And this year, we obviously again talked a lot about the cyber resilience act, 39 00:02:56,000 --> 00:03:03,000 a topic that keeps the first them or one could say the broader Free Software community, 40 00:03:03,000 --> 00:03:08,000 discussing for pretty much two years, I think we started to discuss during the first 41 00:03:08,000 --> 00:03:10,000 them, the cyber resilience act. 42 00:03:10,000 --> 00:03:16,000 And since we are now facing the implementation, some very practical questions arise. 43 00:03:16,000 --> 00:03:20,000 Which is important for us in particular for the FSFE. 44 00:03:20,000 --> 00:03:24,000 There is a so-called Stewart role introduced in the cyber resilience act, 45 00:03:24,000 --> 00:03:30,000 so there are manufacturers, Stewart and the basically one could say individual developers, 46 00:03:30,000 --> 00:03:33,000 these three roles are somehow given. 47 00:03:33,000 --> 00:03:39,000 And there are exemptions in particular for people that don't earn money with free software 48 00:03:39,000 --> 00:03:44,000 or smaller projects, projects that are non-profit projects, 49 00:03:44,000 --> 00:03:49,000 and here we discuss which role they might have in the cyber resilience act 50 00:03:49,000 --> 00:03:52,000 and what application might arise for them. 51 00:03:52,000 --> 00:03:59,000 And how we can, in particular, support stewards in the relationship as manufacturers, 52 00:03:59,000 --> 00:04:05,000 so that in particular, non-profit work is not destroyed by the cyber resilience act, 53 00:04:05,000 --> 00:04:08,000 but in more important, maybe even supported. 54 00:04:09,000 --> 00:04:16,000 And that was a huge discussion we had together with Michael from the German BSI, 55 00:04:16,000 --> 00:04:20,000 so the Bundesant for Sicherheit in the information station, 56 00:04:20,000 --> 00:04:24,000 so basically the IT security agency for Germany, 57 00:04:24,000 --> 00:04:29,000 which also most likely be the market surveillance authority. 58 00:04:29,000 --> 00:04:34,000 For the cyber resilience act was there with me together on a session where we hosted, 59 00:04:34,000 --> 00:04:38,000 yeah, basically a Q&A session on this Stewart question, 60 00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:44,000 and I think that was very useful and intense discussion we had, 61 00:04:44,000 --> 00:04:48,000 so we tried to address these issues, 62 00:04:48,000 --> 00:04:52,000 but also listen to the community what they see, what their fears are, 63 00:04:52,000 --> 00:04:59,000 and this ultimately will also end in a project that we run together with this German BSI, 64 00:04:59,000 --> 00:05:01,000 this IT security agency, 65 00:05:01,000 --> 00:05:06,000 where we precisely want to research on this question, 66 00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:09,000 how the relationship between stewards and manufacturers will be, 67 00:05:09,000 --> 00:05:15,000 so this first session could be also seen as a starting point to this research, 68 00:05:15,000 --> 00:05:19,000 and I would also like to use this postcard episode to, 69 00:05:19,000 --> 00:05:23,000 to kind of as a call, so basically if you are a Stewart, 70 00:05:23,000 --> 00:05:26,000 or if you believe you might be a Stewart, 71 00:05:26,000 --> 00:05:31,000 a few, three to reach out to me directly or to contact at FFE.org, 72 00:05:31,000 --> 00:05:37,000 and we are working on a questionary which we want to share with manufacturers, 73 00:05:37,000 --> 00:05:40,000 stewards and interested stakeholders, 74 00:05:40,000 --> 00:05:44,000 and in order to come up with this question there where we want to address those questions, 75 00:05:44,000 --> 00:05:47,000 we are looking for input, so if you should have some, 76 00:05:47,000 --> 00:05:52,000 it's recommended to you to watch the Q&A session on this year, 77 00:05:52,000 --> 00:05:54,000 from the first term, 78 00:05:54,000 --> 00:05:58,000 and maybe reach out to us if you have some input in this direction for us. 79 00:05:58,000 --> 00:06:01,000 How was the Q&A session, like how many people were there, 80 00:06:01,000 --> 00:06:06,000 and how, what was your feeling from the questions that, 81 00:06:06,000 --> 00:06:09,000 where are those, that are those Q&A session? 82 00:06:09,000 --> 00:06:11,000 Because we are just a cyber-resilience act, 83 00:06:11,000 --> 00:06:15,000 I believe this is the act that we discussed the most in the previous, 84 00:06:15,000 --> 00:06:16,000 in the past year. 85 00:06:16,000 --> 00:06:19,000 Yeah, it's definitely a huge discussion on going, 86 00:06:19,000 --> 00:06:23,000 and that's basically good, but bad at the same time. 87 00:06:23,000 --> 00:06:27,000 It's good since a lot of people take care of this very important topic. 88 00:06:27,000 --> 00:06:34,000 The bad part is that there are some rumors and myths around the cyber-resilience act. 89 00:06:34,000 --> 00:06:39,000 One of our tasks is to explain what's really in, what's not in. 90 00:06:39,000 --> 00:06:42,000 However, there are still, as I said, many open questions 91 00:06:42,000 --> 00:06:44,000 when it comes to implementation, 92 00:06:44,000 --> 00:06:48,000 basically the needy-credi of transforming the sentences we have in the law, 93 00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:50,000 into something which is working, 94 00:06:50,000 --> 00:06:54,000 and I think it is important for the community to know 95 00:06:54,000 --> 00:06:56,000 that there will be basically, in the end, 96 00:06:56,000 --> 00:06:59,000 a market surveillance authority who is doing this, 97 00:06:59,000 --> 00:07:02,000 and it's a good idea to talk to precisely this body, 98 00:07:02,000 --> 00:07:06,000 and since they really can't have this rules on how they do it, 99 00:07:06,000 --> 00:07:09,000 how they see all of this, how they implemented, 100 00:07:09,000 --> 00:07:13,000 so I think it's important to learn that, 101 00:07:13,000 --> 00:07:16,000 basically, it's the market surveillance authority who says, 102 00:07:16,000 --> 00:07:20,000 this is a steward, and this steward now needs to fulfill these obligations. 103 00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:23,000 So that's why it's a good idea to talk to them, 104 00:07:23,000 --> 00:07:25,000 to listen what they have in mind, 105 00:07:25,000 --> 00:07:29,000 and maybe to advocate if it's going in a wrong direction. 106 00:07:29,000 --> 00:07:32,000 So that was basically, I think, a very important point 107 00:07:32,000 --> 00:07:34,000 we made during this discussion, 108 00:07:34,000 --> 00:07:36,000 and which helped the people, however, 109 00:07:36,000 --> 00:07:38,000 so when it comes to the room, 110 00:07:38,000 --> 00:07:42,000 we had one of these basically bigger lecture rooms. 111 00:07:42,000 --> 00:07:46,000 It's very hard to guess how many people have been there, 112 00:07:46,000 --> 00:07:49,000 so the room was pretty full, 113 00:07:49,000 --> 00:07:51,000 and there was a huge interest in this topic, 114 00:07:51,000 --> 00:07:54,000 so I'd say a few hundred, maybe, 115 00:07:54,000 --> 00:07:58,000 but don't talk me on that, 116 00:07:58,000 --> 00:08:01,000 so I'm pretty poor in counting people. 117 00:08:01,000 --> 00:08:03,000 However, there was a huge interest, 118 00:08:03,000 --> 00:08:06,000 and I think, from the questions that came, 119 00:08:06,000 --> 00:08:10,000 it's also clear that there is still a lot of uncertainty 120 00:08:10,000 --> 00:08:13,000 when it comes to M-I-N-S-Dewart, 121 00:08:13,000 --> 00:08:16,000 and if I am a steward, what do I have to do? 122 00:08:16,000 --> 00:08:20,000 And I have to feeling that some people in our community 123 00:08:20,000 --> 00:08:22,000 are feeling the rules, 124 00:08:22,000 --> 00:08:25,000 and that they think that, for example, 125 00:08:25,000 --> 00:08:28,000 issue could be that some sort of 126 00:08:29,000 --> 00:08:33,000 continuity agencies that don't have too much to do with open source, 127 00:08:33,000 --> 00:08:36,000 want to be one of those stewards to earn money worth this, 128 00:08:36,000 --> 00:08:37,000 and how to prevent this, 129 00:08:37,000 --> 00:08:41,000 and I think there's also a lot of fear on the obligations 130 00:08:41,000 --> 00:08:44,000 that stewards might have that there's too much bureaucracy in this, 131 00:08:44,000 --> 00:08:46,000 and that they simply can't do it. 132 00:08:46,000 --> 00:08:49,000 And these are precisely the points we also want to 133 00:08:49,000 --> 00:08:51,000 bring to the market surveillance authority, 134 00:08:51,000 --> 00:08:53,000 and for this I think it was also good. 135 00:08:53,000 --> 00:08:56,000 That they have been there, and that they have seen, 136 00:08:56,000 --> 00:09:00,000 like physically seeing how people are worried about this, 137 00:09:00,000 --> 00:09:05,000 and that there is definitely needed to stay 138 00:09:05,000 --> 00:09:07,000 and touch with these people to communicate with these people 139 00:09:07,000 --> 00:09:09,000 to include them in the debate, 140 00:09:09,000 --> 00:09:12,000 and to remove a bit of the fog, 141 00:09:12,000 --> 00:09:15,000 which might be around this CIA, 142 00:09:15,000 --> 00:09:19,000 because ultimately I think it has more chances than downsides, 143 00:09:19,000 --> 00:09:22,000 if you play it right during this implementation. 144 00:09:23,000 --> 00:09:27,000 And that's something I have to feeling that people understood, 145 00:09:27,000 --> 00:09:29,000 so nothing is lost so far. 146 00:09:29,000 --> 00:09:31,000 It's still in the making, 147 00:09:31,000 --> 00:09:35,000 and we are actively searching for people contributing to this, 148 00:09:35,000 --> 00:09:38,000 and if our community understood, 149 00:09:38,000 --> 00:09:42,000 and this is I think what this panel definitely had for, 150 00:09:42,000 --> 00:09:44,000 is that there is still room for improvements, 151 00:09:44,000 --> 00:09:46,000 then this is something which is, 152 00:09:46,000 --> 00:09:49,000 the solar effects, that's what I think. 153 00:09:50,000 --> 00:09:53,000 So as you said, that the people from their commissioner 154 00:09:53,000 --> 00:09:56,000 are who, because there will be 155 00:09:56,000 --> 00:10:00,000 some agency that will define this to us, 156 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:04,000 so people from this planned agency, 157 00:10:04,000 --> 00:10:10,000 or who was there and saw that some people are very worried about 158 00:10:10,000 --> 00:10:12,000 this whole server itself. 159 00:10:12,000 --> 00:10:16,000 So basically it's the person who is working in the BSI, 160 00:10:17,000 --> 00:10:20,000 the sort of department, which might be in charge 161 00:10:20,000 --> 00:10:23,000 of the Cyber Resilience Act in the implementation. 162 00:10:23,000 --> 00:10:26,000 The thing is that the CIA itself, 163 00:10:26,000 --> 00:10:30,000 was just really released by the end of last year, 164 00:10:30,000 --> 00:10:32,000 so member states are still discussing 165 00:10:32,000 --> 00:10:35,000 who ultimately will be market surveillance authority, 166 00:10:35,000 --> 00:10:38,000 so it's not set in stone, 167 00:10:38,000 --> 00:10:41,000 but it's likely that the BSI will be, 168 00:10:41,000 --> 00:10:43,000 and ultimately the person who was there, 169 00:10:43,000 --> 00:10:45,000 and Michael is also the person, 170 00:10:45,000 --> 00:10:48,000 this whom I'm running the project together with CBI, 171 00:10:48,000 --> 00:10:51,000 in order to figure out how this relationship looked like. 172 00:10:51,000 --> 00:10:54,000 So basically, one could say the representatives 173 00:10:54,000 --> 00:10:57,000 of the department that will be in charge was there, 174 00:10:57,000 --> 00:11:00,000 and for this, it's a thing, 175 00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:05,000 that's also sort of a very strong commitment 176 00:11:05,000 --> 00:11:08,000 that market surveillance authorities do not only want 177 00:11:08,000 --> 00:11:10,000 to work with manufacturers, 178 00:11:10,000 --> 00:11:12,000 or that they have only in eye for the industry, 179 00:11:12,000 --> 00:11:16,000 but they also go actively to our community 180 00:11:16,000 --> 00:11:19,000 in order to learn about our demands or fears, 181 00:11:19,000 --> 00:11:22,000 and I think that's something very valuable 182 00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:27,000 that Michael showed up and not only listen, 183 00:11:27,000 --> 00:11:29,000 but also actively to part in this Q&A session 184 00:11:29,000 --> 00:11:31,000 and try to address those questions 185 00:11:31,000 --> 00:11:35,000 and trying to take away some of the fears 186 00:11:35,000 --> 00:11:37,000 that are in the room. 187 00:11:37,000 --> 00:11:39,000 That I can imagine. 188 00:11:39,000 --> 00:11:42,000 But so this was a successful era 189 00:11:42,000 --> 00:11:47,000 and session in the EU and quality of what else happened there. 190 00:11:47,000 --> 00:11:50,000 I think that it must have been not the only session there, 191 00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:52,000 right? There were loads more. 192 00:11:52,000 --> 00:11:56,000 And here do you were hanging around there the whole day? 193 00:11:56,000 --> 00:11:58,000 Yeah, absolutely. 194 00:11:58,000 --> 00:12:02,000 So it's always a intense experience. 195 00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:07,000 I mean, we start at 10, 30 and at 7, 196 00:12:07,000 --> 00:12:10,000 so that's quite a while. 197 00:12:10,000 --> 00:12:13,000 And also I have to say that many people 198 00:12:13,000 --> 00:12:15,000 stayed for the whole day in the room. 199 00:12:15,000 --> 00:12:18,000 So obviously we had an interesting agenda 200 00:12:18,000 --> 00:12:21,000 and often we also had to close the doors 201 00:12:21,000 --> 00:12:25,000 since the room was so packed that we can't let everybody in. 202 00:12:25,000 --> 00:12:28,000 So for all of you that couldn't see the talk, 203 00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:30,000 they wanted to see there are also recordings 204 00:12:30,000 --> 00:12:32,000 on the first and back side itself, 205 00:12:32,000 --> 00:12:34,000 where you can watch all the talks 206 00:12:34,000 --> 00:12:36,000 and also on FFE.org. 207 00:12:36,000 --> 00:12:38,000 You find the news item in the blog post 208 00:12:38,000 --> 00:12:41,000 where we also report about what happened. 209 00:12:41,000 --> 00:12:44,000 I want to highlight in this podcast again, 210 00:12:44,000 --> 00:12:46,000 a very practical talk we had, 211 00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:50,000 which is on the mandatory B2B e-in voices 212 00:12:50,000 --> 00:12:52,000 and which this means for software. 213 00:12:52,000 --> 00:12:55,000 I think that was a very interesting talk 214 00:12:55,000 --> 00:12:59,000 since it addresses a very practical hands-on question 215 00:12:59,000 --> 00:13:02,000 that is basically coming to us, 216 00:13:02,000 --> 00:13:05,000 which in the first place doesn't look like a free software problem, 217 00:13:05,000 --> 00:13:10,000 but there are some strings attached to the free software community. 218 00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:12,000 So that was a pretty hands-on talk, 219 00:13:12,000 --> 00:13:17,000 I think this is also always nice to have. 220 00:13:17,000 --> 00:13:23,000 Also we discussed in this like hands-on tool related topic, 221 00:13:23,000 --> 00:13:28,000 a tool from the UBIN data protection board, 222 00:13:28,000 --> 00:13:30,000 which is basically a compliance tool 223 00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:35,000 where you can check how your website is in line with data protection laws 224 00:13:35,000 --> 00:13:38,000 and this is also an open source tool. 225 00:13:38,000 --> 00:13:42,000 So here we can see how UBIN institutions 226 00:13:42,000 --> 00:13:45,000 also are made use of open source tools 227 00:13:45,000 --> 00:13:49,000 in order to fulfill the obligations in order to help. 228 00:13:49,000 --> 00:13:52,000 Companies out there are in this case like, 229 00:13:52,000 --> 00:13:55,000 yeah, people who run a website. 230 00:13:55,000 --> 00:13:57,000 Also I mean, which is very important for us, 231 00:13:57,000 --> 00:14:02,000 in particular for the FSE is the discussion we have on the DNA 232 00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:04,000 and the Apple litigation case. 233 00:14:04,000 --> 00:14:09,000 So my colleague Lucas is working on basically 234 00:14:09,000 --> 00:14:15,000 interoperability question when it comes to the App Store on iOS, 235 00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:20,000 so Apple phones and tablets. 236 00:14:20,000 --> 00:14:26,000 And here we run a legal activity against Apple 237 00:14:26,000 --> 00:14:30,000 and that was in particular interesting 238 00:14:30,000 --> 00:14:33,000 since there was a fire side chat with somebody 239 00:14:33,000 --> 00:14:36,000 or with two people from the UBIN commission 240 00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:39,000 that were giving insights in their daily work, 241 00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:42,000 how they do this and yeah, 242 00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:46,000 what questions arise when we talk about the gatekeeper issue, 243 00:14:46,000 --> 00:14:51,000 device neutrality topics and how we legally try to enforce this 244 00:14:51,000 --> 00:14:55,000 together with the commission to make sure that on the Apple, 245 00:14:55,000 --> 00:14:58,000 as device is this in the future possible 246 00:14:58,000 --> 00:15:03,000 to, for example, also install the F-Troid app store 247 00:15:03,000 --> 00:15:07,000 and by that you will be able to also get apps. 248 00:15:07,000 --> 00:15:10,000 There are not coming from this Apple universe 249 00:15:10,000 --> 00:15:13,000 but can be free software from the F-Troid store, for example. 250 00:15:13,000 --> 00:15:15,000 So a very interesting legal case. 251 00:15:15,000 --> 00:15:20,000 I think it will be somehow also covered in this podcast episode 252 00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:24,000 since there will be some results one day 253 00:15:24,000 --> 00:15:29,000 and we hope to be able to safeguard device neutrality business. 254 00:15:29,000 --> 00:15:31,000 And yeah, that was also in particular, 255 00:15:31,000 --> 00:15:34,000 since people from the UBIN commission showed up again 256 00:15:34,000 --> 00:15:37,000 I think a sign that's European institutions 257 00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:41,000 that institutions in general do take care of what we do 258 00:15:41,000 --> 00:15:46,000 that they follow our arguments even more 259 00:15:46,000 --> 00:15:53,000 and that they also even more up to also join these kind of like community events 260 00:15:53,000 --> 00:15:56,000 like the first them and explain their work towards this community 261 00:15:56,000 --> 00:15:59,000 and I think that's also a very strong statement 262 00:15:59,000 --> 00:16:02,000 from the commission to join these fireside chat. 263 00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:05,000 Where you know it's the first them, 264 00:16:05,000 --> 00:16:08,000 people are very critical to people 265 00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:11,000 and they sometimes ask questions that are not so nice 266 00:16:11,000 --> 00:16:14,000 for institution people or decision makers, 267 00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:16,000 but they show up, they took the questions 268 00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:19,000 and that's I think something we should also value 269 00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:23,000 that more and more people from the institutions 270 00:16:23,000 --> 00:16:26,000 are coming on a week and to explain their work 271 00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:30,000 and that's also a good result of our work at check. 272 00:16:30,000 --> 00:16:33,000 Yeah, it makes them more approachable, right? 273 00:16:33,000 --> 00:16:35,000 I just thought that this was like, 274 00:16:35,000 --> 00:16:40,000 it's actually a chance to engage with policy makers 275 00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:44,000 and to talk about your fears and your thoughts 276 00:16:44,000 --> 00:16:47,000 and bring them to their attention. 277 00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:50,000 Absolutely, and I do believe a dialogue is always better 278 00:16:50,000 --> 00:16:54,000 to have with the people we want to basically address 279 00:16:54,000 --> 00:16:56,000 with our demands, so it's better to talk with them 280 00:16:56,000 --> 00:17:00,000 instead of over them and for this I think it's also underlying 281 00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:04,000 how important this event is and that they see 282 00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:06,000 that it is an important event for them 283 00:17:06,000 --> 00:17:09,000 to go there and to meet these kind of stakeholders 284 00:17:09,000 --> 00:17:12,000 so that they are not only meeting the industry 285 00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:14,000 in the hidden hotel during the week, 286 00:17:14,000 --> 00:17:17,000 but that they also actively go on a Saturday 287 00:17:17,000 --> 00:17:20,000 to the university to an event 288 00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:22,000 which is absolutely crazy 289 00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:24,000 and if you have there for the very first time 290 00:17:24,000 --> 00:17:26,000 in particular, if you are living in the process but 291 00:17:26,000 --> 00:17:29,000 it's the complete opposite of what you normally see 292 00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:31,000 how people advocate for something 293 00:17:31,000 --> 00:17:34,000 and that they do the step that something 294 00:17:34,000 --> 00:17:35,000 really valued a lot. 295 00:17:35,000 --> 00:17:38,000 Okay, I can't imagine, I think that's a very nice of them 296 00:17:38,000 --> 00:17:41,000 and it shows a lot of commitment to the community. 297 00:17:42,000 --> 00:17:45,000 This is a short break for our own cause. 298 00:17:45,000 --> 00:17:49,000 Thank you for listening to this afternoon podcast. 299 00:17:49,000 --> 00:17:52,000 Working for software freedom and producing podcasts, 300 00:17:52,000 --> 00:17:53,000 cost money. 301 00:17:53,000 --> 00:17:56,000 Please consider supporting us with a donation 302 00:17:56,000 --> 00:18:01,000 on the ffs.org slash donate at the show notes. 303 00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:10,000 So this was the legal and policy too. 304 00:18:11,000 --> 00:18:12,000 That room. 305 00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:14,000 But I remember we had two. 306 00:18:14,000 --> 00:18:15,000 Yes. 307 00:18:15,000 --> 00:18:17,000 We did have another one. 308 00:18:17,000 --> 00:18:19,000 It was one on Sunday. 309 00:18:19,000 --> 00:18:20,000 Yeah. 310 00:18:20,000 --> 00:18:22,000 It was the post funding. 311 00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:25,000 Yeah, since this other day it's not enough of work. 312 00:18:25,000 --> 00:18:30,000 I also decided to have no with some other organizations 313 00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:33,000 to come up with a funding there from here. 314 00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:36,000 For example, we worked with the sovereignty agency from Germany. 315 00:18:36,000 --> 00:18:39,000 We worked with the Linux foundation, the prototype fund. 316 00:18:39,000 --> 00:18:44,000 So people that are also already active in this sphere of funding. 317 00:18:44,000 --> 00:18:47,000 We came together, I'd say, 318 00:18:47,000 --> 00:18:53,000 mid last year and decided on the idea to propose a funding 319 00:18:53,000 --> 00:18:54,000 that room. 320 00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:59,000 We precisely discussed basically all questions that arise 321 00:18:59,000 --> 00:19:00,000 from funding. 322 00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:04,000 So for example, from whom do you want to take funding? 323 00:19:04,000 --> 00:19:06,000 From whom not? 324 00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:10,000 Is there a way how we can identify, for example, 325 00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:14,000 very important projects or core infrastructure that we want to support? 326 00:19:14,000 --> 00:19:17,000 How much money do we want to give them? 327 00:19:17,000 --> 00:19:24,000 Is there some sort of communication or some sort of activity 328 00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:28,000 to be more successful in fundraising, for example? 329 00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:32,000 So there are many discussions on funds on funding on where 330 00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:37,000 money should come from, and all of these discussions 331 00:19:37,000 --> 00:19:41,000 happening here and there, but not like on one place. 332 00:19:41,000 --> 00:19:45,000 And that's why we decided to come up with this dedicated funding 333 00:19:45,000 --> 00:19:49,000 that room and I think that was also a huge success. 334 00:19:49,000 --> 00:19:53,000 So also this room was pretty packed during the whole day. 335 00:19:53,000 --> 00:19:57,000 And we had many, many submissions also in the first place. 336 00:19:57,000 --> 00:20:01,000 So we had to be very picky on the talks we had. 337 00:20:01,000 --> 00:20:05,000 And ultimately, but I think we came up with a very, very nice agenda 338 00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:09,000 that addressed most of the topics that somehow arise 339 00:20:09,000 --> 00:20:11,000 when we talk about funding. 340 00:20:11,000 --> 00:20:15,000 And also the discussions after every talk show that there is really 341 00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:19,000 in need for this discussion that there is a lot of expertise. 342 00:20:19,000 --> 00:20:23,000 Also, that was very nice to see that many participants who 343 00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:30,000 maybe had been rejected by their talk due to the nature of this very short date, 344 00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:35,000 which we had basically just eight hours, where we discussed this topic. 345 00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:38,000 But still in the room and sharing the expertise. 346 00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:43,000 And that was pretty nice to see that it was not just like people talking 347 00:20:43,000 --> 00:20:47,000 and sharing the experience from the stage, but that there was also a lot 348 00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:51,000 of interaction with the people in the room that also not only ask questions, 349 00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:55,000 but also added a lot of very useful information. 350 00:20:55,000 --> 00:20:59,000 And for example, sources, so where you can look for money, 351 00:20:59,000 --> 00:21:02,000 how to do this, they shared the experience. 352 00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:06,000 And I think that was basically what the deaf room should look like, right? 353 00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:11,000 So that there is a discussion ongoing that there is, 354 00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:14,000 one could say, something starts there. 355 00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:18,000 So I had a feeling that after this deaf room, 356 00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:24,000 more and more people are now connected and can work together and collaborate on these questions. 357 00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:27,000 So I would be very happy to see this deaf room again next year, 358 00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:31,000 and maybe to see if there was already some sort of progress. 359 00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:34,000 Or if there are some new questions, I mean, 360 00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:38,000 we both also talked about the funding topic that we discussed. 361 00:21:38,000 --> 00:21:41,000 I think two at this also go, go. 362 00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:45,000 So there are also discussions ongoing, not only in the European Union, 363 00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:47,000 but also in member states and globally, 364 00:21:47,000 --> 00:21:49,000 how to invest in core infrastructure, 365 00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:52,000 how to invest in digital to sovereignty, 366 00:21:52,000 --> 00:21:55,000 but world plays free software and all of this. 367 00:21:55,000 --> 00:22:07,000 And I think it's a good idea that our community is networking and collaborating on those questions in order to be able to influence these discussions happening on the European level. 368 00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:10,000 Like this input from us, 369 00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:17,000 because I do believe that our community is basically that one that can help in this debate a lot, 370 00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:20,000 in order to identify who are the people that need money, 371 00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:23,000 which are the projects that need support, 372 00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:26,000 and which are the other projects where we could also say, 373 00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:28,000 this is something that the market should invest, 374 00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:32,000 and not us taxpayers money. 375 00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:37,000 I think there are different sources we need to discuss, 376 00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:41,000 we are managed to come from and it should always be private and public. 377 00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:45,000 So in this, these are some questions that are not that easy 378 00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:48,000 to discuss when it comes again to the needy query, 379 00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:54,000 and here I think it's a good idea if we can up this idea as out of our community ourselves, 380 00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:58,000 and point to the right project that needs support, 381 00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:01,000 and discuss this also within our community, 382 00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:06,000 how we do believe funding for the free software ecosystem should look like, 383 00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:09,000 and what's good for us is community and what not. 384 00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:12,000 And therefore this deaf room was super helpful. 385 00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:16,000 It was also pretty hands on if you are a project and you struggle with finding money. 386 00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:19,000 There are definitely talks, you should watch again, 387 00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:24,000 also here these talks are all recorded. 388 00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:27,000 So you can go on the first step side, 389 00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:29,000 channel to the deaf room, click the talk, 390 00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:31,000 and you will find the recording of the talk. 391 00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:33,000 So you can watch all of this again, 392 00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:36,000 or I said, saying here we will also have a blog post, 393 00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:38,000 and use the item on fissivee.org. 394 00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:40,000 Where we report about this deaf room, 395 00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:44,000 and where you can also find recordings and rewatch, 396 00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:46,000 what's interesting for you. 397 00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:48,000 And I will also link them in the show notes. 398 00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:49,000 Yes. 399 00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:50,000 Perfect. 400 00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:52,000 Not all of the videos separately, 401 00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:55,000 but the deaf room that you can go through the talk. 402 00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:56,000 Exactly. 403 00:23:56,000 --> 00:23:58,000 And then what's the recording? 404 00:23:58,000 --> 00:24:00,000 Because otherwise it would be a bit too much. 405 00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:03,000 Maybe I can attach also here, 406 00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:05,000 a call to our community, 407 00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:07,000 or to our listeners of this podcast episode. 408 00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:09,000 So if you are working on the topic of funding, 409 00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:11,000 or if you are interested in the topic of funding, 410 00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:14,000 if you want to contribute with this debate, 411 00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:17,000 you're also free to reach out to me directly, 412 00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:19,000 or to contact at fissivee.org. 413 00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:21,000 So we are still in the very early phase, 414 00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:23,000 I'd say, of this debate, 415 00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:25,000 and it will keep us busy, 416 00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:27,000 I do believe for the next term. 417 00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:29,000 So basically for the next five years, 418 00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:30,000 you should debate, 419 00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:32,000 we are discussing, 420 00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:34,000 you will stick a one-stack, 421 00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:36,000 we are discussing core infrastructure, 422 00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:38,000 we are discussing innovation in Europe, 423 00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:43,000 the new digital program will be coming up into years 424 00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:46,000 where there might be potential sources for funding. 425 00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:48,000 So the discussion is just about to start, 426 00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:51,000 so if you want to take part in this discussion, 427 00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:52,000 if you have ideas, 428 00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:53,000 if you have points, 429 00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:55,000 or if you also have experience, 430 00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:58,000 which is a big interest for us, 431 00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:00,000 and if you are free to reach out to us. 432 00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:03,000 That one's a good idea to get all of us, 433 00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:04,000 if you could together, 434 00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:06,000 and to start with this discussion, 435 00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:07,000 also outside of Boston. 436 00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:10,000 But what was the best thing that happened in this, 437 00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:11,000 of course, 438 00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:12,000 funding, 439 00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:13,000 deaf room for you, 440 00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:15,000 like what really stood out for you? 441 00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:19,000 What was the something I better to ask us to hire to name? 442 00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:23,000 So I don't want to pick a specific talk, 443 00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:26,000 but what I really liked was, 444 00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:27,000 what I already said, 445 00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:29,000 that there was a lot of interaction in the deaf room. 446 00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:34,000 So, and that there was basically participants, 447 00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:36,000 and speakers have been on eye level, 448 00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:40,000 and it had been a very good exchange. 449 00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:45,000 I do believe that also speakers took some sort of information 450 00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:49,000 that was new to them away from this deaf room, 451 00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:52,000 and that's something which is really good. 452 00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:55,000 And I do believe also that this deaf room helped a lot, 453 00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:57,000 and in order to bring people together, 454 00:25:57,000 --> 00:26:00,000 to see who else is working on this topic, 455 00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:03,000 and to be able to network with those people, 456 00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:06,000 and to be able to collaborate in the future, 457 00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:07,000 and that's, 458 00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:08,000 I think, 459 00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:10,000 the biggest result of this deaf room, 460 00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:11,000 and yeah, 461 00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:13,000 bringing people together, 462 00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:15,000 and pointing to it, 463 00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:17,000 and giving it the importance with, 464 00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:19,000 like also a dedicated deaf room, 465 00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:22,000 showed that there is the need to discuss this, 466 00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:24,000 that there is a need from the community, 467 00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:26,000 and people are already working on this, 468 00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:27,000 but that they are not, 469 00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:29,000 well, network together, 470 00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:31,000 but this room definitely had to, 471 00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:32,000 to create this, 472 00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:34,000 get people closer together, 473 00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:35,000 absolutely. 474 00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:36,000 And that was, 475 00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:39,000 that was basically the best outcome for me, 476 00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:40,000 however, 477 00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:41,000 as said, 478 00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:43,000 so there is definitely something, 479 00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:45,000 which is super interesting, 480 00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:46,000 so for me, 481 00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:48,000 in particular, 482 00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:51,000 the question on combining public and private efforts, 483 00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:54,000 so how we can bring together the market, 484 00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:57,000 and the taxpayers in order to support, 485 00:26:57,000 --> 00:26:59,000 free software ecosystem, 486 00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:02,000 that's one of the most interesting questions for me, 487 00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:03,000 because I do believe, 488 00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:05,000 it should not only be taxpayers money, 489 00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:06,000 but also private money, 490 00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:07,000 and there, 491 00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:08,000 it's definitely a question, 492 00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:10,000 how can we push the market, 493 00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:11,000 how can we, 494 00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:13,000 in particular, push those who benefit from, 495 00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:14,000 feel software, 496 00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:16,000 but don't contribute back, 497 00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:17,000 how can we push them, 498 00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:19,000 and the very interesting part here is, 499 00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:21,000 that we can even combine this, 500 00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:22,000 we can combine this debate, 501 00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:24,000 with the cyber resilience act, 502 00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:28,000 as we dare have these roles of the Stuart and manufacturer, 503 00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:31,000 and we want the manufacturer supporting the Stuart, 504 00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:32,000 so you can see that we, 505 00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:34,000 with this topic, 506 00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:35,000 also, 507 00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:39,000 and using other files to create awareness about this topic, 508 00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:43,000 and this topic of funding is discussed in many debates, 509 00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:46,000 but it's not that there is, 510 00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:48,000 this one funding debate happening in Europe, 511 00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:50,000 at the moment, 512 00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:51,000 at the moment, 513 00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:52,000 it's still a lot of peace work, 514 00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:54,000 and I do believe that this, 515 00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:57,000 that we just address these questions, 516 00:27:57,000 --> 00:28:00,000 we've already helped us to showcase, 517 00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:03,000 that there's not this one single question in this, 518 00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:04,000 niche debate, 519 00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:07,000 but that there's ongoing overall funding debate, 520 00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:13,000 which is basically asking for public and private money, 521 00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:15,000 for innovation, 522 00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:17,000 for core infrastructure, 523 00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:19,000 and for digital digital sovereignty, 524 00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:22,000 and to come up with one answer to this, 525 00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:24,000 needs collaboration, 526 00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:26,000 it needs working together, 527 00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:30,000 and understanding in which niche's people are working on this topic, 528 00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:34,000 in order to have shared approach, 529 00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:35,000 so to say, 530 00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:36,000 to the funding question, 531 00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:38,000 and that we can also use the niche debates 532 00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:40,000 to show that there are other debates 533 00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:42,000 ongoing in other files as well. 534 00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:43,000 Yeah, 535 00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:45,000 I would like to pick out the word, 536 00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:47,000 as you mentioned, 537 00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:49,000 working together, creating that book, 538 00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:52,000 and also highlight the part 539 00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:55,000 that we at FSAFE took a lot of time 540 00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:58,000 to go through all of those talks, 541 00:28:58,000 --> 00:28:59,000 to like, 542 00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:02,000 put energy in there and to create those rooms 543 00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:05,000 for the whole community to network into you, 544 00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:06,000 get together, 545 00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:09,000 but we also depend on your support. 546 00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:12,000 So please consider supporting us with the nation, 547 00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:16,000 and you can find information on the FSAFE.org slash donate, 548 00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:21,000 as we can only continue our work for free software here support. 549 00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:24,000 This is something that I would like to highlight 550 00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:26,000 during the context of working, 551 00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:28,000 because I was just thinking, 552 00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:30,000 during the whole time I thought, 553 00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:31,000 oh my god, 554 00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:33,000 Alex has spent a lot of time 555 00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:35,000 and effort to create those rooms, 556 00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:38,000 and I think this is something 557 00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:41,000 that the whole community benefited by, you know? 558 00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:44,000 I hope so, I hope so, and I had a feeling. 559 00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:45,000 Yeah. 560 00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:47,000 And I also have to add, 561 00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:49,000 as the normally, 562 00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:51,000 not only the preparation of the FSAFE, 563 00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:53,000 it's very time consuming, 564 00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:55,000 but also the days afterwards, 565 00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:57,000 or even the weeks afterwards. 566 00:29:57,000 --> 00:30:00,000 So since you normally run into so many people during FSAFE, 567 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:03,000 and you start so many short chats 568 00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:04,000 where you agree on, 569 00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:06,000 oh we need to continue this conversation, 570 00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:07,000 but it's for them, 571 00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:09,000 you know, I have to run to the next meeting, 572 00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:11,000 and you collect even addresses, 573 00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:13,000 and a lot of things, 574 00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:15,000 and several communication networks, 575 00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:17,000 and I'm still struggling, 576 00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:21,000 some may it's that I still have to send. 577 00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:24,000 So it's not only what's happening that day, 578 00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:26,000 it's one part is the preparation, 579 00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:28,000 the another part is being there for two days, 580 00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:30,000 more than nine hours in those deaf rooms, 581 00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:32,000 without any sunlight. 582 00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:35,000 And then the part which comes afterwards, 583 00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:37,000 and at one day, 584 00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:40,000 we will start again preparing the next FSAFE, 585 00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:43,000 so it's basically FSAFE keeps us busy for the whole year, 586 00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:45,000 one could say, 587 00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:47,000 and that I can do my work, 588 00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:50,000 in order to realize these kind of deaf rooms, 589 00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:51,000 but in order to follow up, 590 00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:53,000 so it's not just like, 591 00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:55,000 that we do these deaf rooms for fun. 592 00:30:55,000 --> 00:30:57,000 We also want to have impact business, 593 00:30:57,000 --> 00:30:58,000 and this needs follow up, 594 00:30:58,000 --> 00:30:59,000 and this needs a lot of time. 595 00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:01,000 And as said, 596 00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:02,000 for example, with the funding thing, 597 00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:04,000 we are just starting, 598 00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:05,000 to be able to do this, 599 00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:06,000 and I say, 600 00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:08,000 as a whole community, 601 00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:10,000 and bringing these people together, 602 00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:11,000 also takes time, 603 00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:12,000 it needs energy, 604 00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:14,000 finding common ground, 605 00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:16,000 see where we can work together, 606 00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:18,000 and this needs a lot of time, 607 00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:19,000 resources, 608 00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:21,000 and if you donate to us, 609 00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:23,000 you make this work possible, 610 00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:25,000 you make our sites for funding possible, 611 00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:27,000 and then also, 612 00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:29,000 one day we'll benefit you, 613 00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:30,000 if you, 614 00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:31,000 for example, 615 00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:32,000 a developer, 616 00:31:32,000 --> 00:31:36,000 and maybe we'll get funds for your project in the future. 617 00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:37,000 Perfect. 618 00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:39,000 I would like to take this as a closing word, 619 00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:40,000 because we, 620 00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:43,000 exceeded a bit of our time, 621 00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:44,000 11, 622 00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:46,000 but I had a very fine chat with you. 623 00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:47,000 Thank you so much, 624 00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:48,000 Alex, 625 00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:49,000 for making this possible. 626 00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:50,000 Thank you so much for your work, 627 00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:51,000 on free software, 628 00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:54,000 and advocating for free software in the European Union. 629 00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:57,000 I think this is a really valuable work, 630 00:31:57,000 --> 00:32:00,000 and I really appreciate working with you together, 631 00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:02,000 thank you. 632 00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:03,000 Thank you so much. 633 00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:05,000 This was the software freedom podcast. 634 00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:07,000 If you like this episode, 635 00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:09,000 please recommend it to your friends, 636 00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:10,000 and write it. 637 00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:12,000 Stay tuned for more inspiring conversations, 638 00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:15,000 that explore the importance of software freedom, 639 00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:18,000 and its impact on our digital life. 640 00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:22,000 This podcast is presented to you by the free software foundation Europe. 641 00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:26,000 We are a charity that works on promoting software freedom. 642 00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:28,000 If you like our work, 643 00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:31,000 please consider supporting us as a donation. 644 00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:35,000 You find more information on the FSE.org slash donate. 645 00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:37,000 Thank you so much for your support, 646 00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:39,000 and until next time, 647 00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:40,000 bye-bye.